Your Universal Remote Control Center
RemoteCentral.com
Custom Installers' Lounge Forum - View Post
Previous section Next section Previous page Next page Up level
Up level
The following page was printed from RemoteCentral.com:

Login:
Pass:
 
 

Page 1 of 4
Topic:
Bi Amping my speakers
This thread has 48 replies. Displaying posts 1 through 15.
Post 1 made on Friday September 13, 2019 at 18:12
Qualitysound
Lurking Member
Joined:
Posts:
September 2019
3
I had a question about biamping my speakers to get it to reach their full potential. I currently powering my bowers and Wilkins s2 8 ohms 200w front speaker using four channelsl from my Yamaha 3080 receiver. Each channel is about 150 watts a piece. I was looking to get a additional power amplifier just to power these two front speakers. My question is what is the wattage that I should send to both the top half and bottom half of these speakers? I am having trouble figuring out what is the best way of doing this. I am a beginner in the by amping world. I am looking for the best way to receive the peak performance of my speakers. Looking for answers to how many channels and wattage should the power amplifier have and how much wattage should I be distributing to my top and bottom half of each speaker. Thank you all in advance!
Post 2 made on Friday September 13, 2019 at 19:07
Brad Humphrey
Super Member
Joined:
Posts:
February 2004
2,600
This is a very loaded question. A lot of other details need to be realized before doing a deep dive into the answers you are really looking for. When you are getting this particular about sound quality - biamping is a very subtle difference for a large investment of money (amps, DSP, etc.).

1) I assume we are talking about the B&W 703 S2. Since those are the only S2 models that spec 200w in their description.

2) Is this part of a surround setup with a center channel speaker? Or is this only a 2ch setup with left & right? Is their a subwoofer involved or only using the towers for bass?

3) What is the listening space like? Meaning, the room is 1/2 the sound you hear from a system. And if nothing has been done about calculating speaker placement, room modes, RT60 times (reverb/echo), etc. then you are spinning your wheels. Room acoustics are usually cheap to alter and make a MUCH larger impact on sound quality, than biamping. So if that hasn't been addressed first, you are going about this in the wrong order.
OP | Post 3 made on Friday September 13, 2019 at 19:24
Qualitysound
Lurking Member
Joined:
Posts:
September 2019
3
I appreciate you response. I have to check the actual speakers whether they are 7s or 6s. I know that they are 200w on 8 ohms. I do have a center channel and 2 bookshelf speakers all s2s, along with a 10 in subwoofer. My house is a open floor plan downstairs kitchen, dinning and living room are all open. My thing is pushing speakers to max capacity that they can handle. What I want is to bi amp my 2 front speakers.
OP | Post 4 made on Friday September 13, 2019 at 19:28
Qualitysound
Lurking Member
Joined:
Posts:
September 2019
3
Not sure what power amp how many channels and how much power should be apply to each half of each speaker.
Post 5 made on Friday September 13, 2019 at 20:02
Fins
Elite Member
Joined:
Posts:
June 2007
11,627
On September 13, 2019 at 19:24, Qualitysound said...
I appreciate you response. I have to check the actual speakers whether they are 7s or 6s. I know that they are 200w on 8 ohms. I do have a center channel and 2 bookshelf speakers all s2s, along with a 10 in subwoofer. My house is a open floor plan downstairs kitchen, dinning and living room are all open. My thing is pushing speakers to max capacity that they can handle. What I want is to bi amp my 2 front speakers.

First, speakers don’t have watts. So you are misunderstanding the ratings. Second, you’re using a Japanese amplifier. The gain in quality isn’t going to be enough to be worth the hassle of biamping the speakers. It’s like you are trying to put a Chevrolet V6 in an R8.
Civil War reenactment is LARPing for people with no imagination.

Post 6 made on Friday September 13, 2019 at 20:34
Ernie Gilman
Yes, That Ernie!
Joined:
Posts:
December 2001
30,104
Like Fins said.

The speaker and power thing is this: the speakers have a nominal impedance of 8 ohms and they are specified as being able to handle 200 watts. However, this says so little about what can be known that it's ridiculous.

First, loudspeakers have different impedances at different frequencies, so the word "nominal" is used. That word means "that's what we call it." I've seen production 8 ohm speakers with peak impedances of 30 ohms and impedance dips down below 8 ohms... and there was nothing wrong with any of these speakers. This is just a glimpse into what's omitted with the idea of "8 ohms."

My thing is pushing speakers to max capacity that they can handle.

But speakers are not created to deliver the most pushed to the max sound that they can deliver. They are made to make sounds that are so realistic that you'd swear the musicians were in the room with you. Or you want some bass that will rattle your teeth. Or you want to put two speakers in just the right position and play music that you will swear is coming from all around the room. All of this is possible and none of it involved pushing speakers to max capacity.

What are you using for a crossover?
A good answer is easier with a clear question giving the make and model of everything.
"The biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place." -- G. “Bernie” Shaw
Post 7 made on Friday September 13, 2019 at 20:48
Fins
Elite Member
Joined:
Posts:
June 2007
11,627
On September 13, 2019 at 20:34, Ernie Gilman said...
Like Fins said.

The speaker and power thing is this: the speakers have a nominal impedance of 8 ohms and they are specified as being able to handle 200 watts. However, this says so little about what can be known that it's ridiculous.

First, loudspeakers have different impedances at different frequencies, so the word "nominal" is used. That word means "that's what we call it." I've seen production 8 ohm speakers with peak impedances of 30 ohms and impedance dips down below 8 ohms... and there was nothing wrong with any of these speakers. This is just a glimpse into what's omitted with the idea of "8 ohms."

But speakers are not created to deliver the most pushed to the max sound that they can deliver. They are made to make sounds that are so realistic that you'd swear the musicians were in the room with you. Or you want some bass that will rattle your teeth. Or you want to put two speakers in just the right position and play music that you will swear is coming from all around the room. All of this is possible and none of it involved pushing speakers to max capacity.

What are you using for a crossover?

Ernie, he mentioned he is using four channels on a Yamaha AVR for his fronts. Based on his wording, im not following at all how this is set up. But, let’s go with the assumption the Yamaha is doing all the processing. It’s crossover isn’t good enough to bother trying to bi-amp. But, the Yamaha doesn’t even offer an option for bi-amping. So is he currently trying to use the front high channels with the front channels to try to bi-amp these speakers?
Civil War reenactment is LARPing for people with no imagination.

Post 8 made on Friday September 13, 2019 at 20:49
dunnersfella
Long Time Member
Joined:
Posts:
October 2016
309
B&W 7 series speakers dip down into the 3ohm range - not overly efficient...
Whilst in my experience most B&W speakers love power, to be honest, the Yamaha can drive your stereo pair just fine.
You'll get far greater return from the following -

Room acoustic treatment
Speaker placement experimentation
Adding one or two powered subwoofers

Adding more
This industry is not getting cheaper and cheaper, we're simply convincing ourselves that we have to push the cheapest option to customers.
#makesonosgreatagain
Post 9 made on Friday September 13, 2019 at 22:01
Fins
Elite Member
Joined:
Posts:
June 2007
11,627
On September 13, 2019 at 20:49, dunnersfella said...
B&W 7 series speakers dip down into the 3ohm range - not overly efficient...
Whilst in my experience most B&W speakers love power, to be honest, the Yamaha can drive your stereo pair just fine.
You'll get far greater return from the following -

Room acoustic treatment
Speaker placement experimentation
Adding one or two powered subwoofers

Adding more

The issue with running B&W’s with Yamaha isn’t about having enough power. It’s that it’s just an OK sounding amp.
Civil War reenactment is LARPing for people with no imagination.

Post 10 made on Friday September 13, 2019 at 22:07
ichbinbose
Select Member
Joined:
Posts:
August 2011
1,824
A really good amp can make all of the difference in the world.
Back in my retail days i would demo a 150 watt Sony, Denon, Yamaha receiver on a pair of Vienna acoustic speakers vs a Krell integrated amp rated 60 watts a channel.
It was a very noticeable difference in favor of the krell.
Oh and the receivers would typically weigh less than 10lbs for a 2 channel vs the krell that weighed probably triple
Post 11 made on Friday September 13, 2019 at 22:25
Mac Burks (39)
Elite Member
Joined:
Posts:
May 2007
17,519
On September 13, 2019 at 19:24, Qualitysound said...
My thing is pushing speakers to max capacity that they can handle.

Why is this your thing? Your goal should be to get the best sound possible from the entire system. "Pushing the speakers to the max" isn't going to do that (my opinion). You are going to be wasting money on something that wont give you "Qualitysound".

What is your real goal? Do you want it louder? Do you want it to sound better? Or do you just want to feel good about driving the speakers as hard as you can just because?

I personally think that bi-amping is snake oil. As others have mentioned...sound treatment & speaker placement are important. If you really just have to turn it up to 11 i would get a dedicated amp and skip the bi-amping.
Avid Stamp Collector - I really love 39 Cent Stamps
Post 12 made on Saturday September 14, 2019 at 00:23
dunnersfella
Long Time Member
Joined:
Posts:
October 2016
309
On September 13, 2019 at 22:01, Fins said...
The issue with running B&W’s with Yamaha isn’t about having enough power. It’s that it’s just an OK sounding amp.

I suggest going out and listening to an RXA3080 if you think this is the case.

My friend owns a pair of series 2, 7 series floor standers and he drives them with a RXA3070 (close, but not identical to the OP's) and on the money - heck for what are reasonably old speakers that many didn't love, it blows him away regularly.
I stand by my statement that the BM'ers are difficult to drive and that they love power, but again, don't look to the amp - if gains are to be had it will be found in room acoustics / placement and powered subwoofer(s).
This industry is not getting cheaper and cheaper, we're simply convincing ourselves that we have to push the cheapest option to customers.
#makesonosgreatagain
Post 13 made on Saturday September 14, 2019 at 01:58
davidcasemore
Super Member
Joined:
Posts:
January 2003
3,352
On September 13, 2019 at 22:25, Mac Burks (39) said...
I personally think that bi-amping is snake oil.

I agree - unless you use line level crossovers prior to the amplifiers (like with the four-input B&W Nautilus).

Speaking of snake oil, this month's issue of Stereophile has an ad for a 6ft power cable for $9,999.00 - but hurry, it's a limited run of 500.
Fins: Still Slamming' His Trunk on pilgrim's Small Weenie - One Trunk at a Time!
Post 14 made on Saturday September 14, 2019 at 09:22
highfigh
Loyal Member
Joined:
Posts:
September 2004
8,322
On September 13, 2019 at 22:07, ichbinbose said...
A really good amp can make all of the difference in the world.
Back in my retail days i would demo a 150 watt Sony, Denon, Yamaha receiver on a pair of Vienna acoustic speakers vs a Krell integrated amp rated 60 watts a channel.
It was a very noticeable difference in favor of the krell.
Oh and the receivers would typically weigh less than 10lbs for a 2 channel vs the krell that weighed probably triple

Ten pounds? I had an FM-only Sony tuner that weighed 34 pounds!
My mechanic told me, "I couldn't repair your brakes, so I made your horn louder."
Post 15 made on Saturday September 14, 2019 at 09:27
highfigh
Loyal Member
Joined:
Posts:
September 2004
8,322
On September 13, 2019 at 19:24, Qualitysound said...
My thing is pushing speakers to max capacity that they can handle. What I want is to bi amp my 2 front speakers.

Do you drive your car at wide open throttle, too?

This has been debated to death in every audio forum- if it made a positive difference, everyone would be doing it.

If you hate your speakers and want to kill them sooner, there are other methods.
My mechanic told me, "I couldn't repair your brakes, so I made your horn louder."
Find in this thread:
Page 1 of 4


Jump to


Protected Feature Before you can reply to a message...
You must first register for a Remote Central user account - it's fast and free! Or, if you already have an account, please login now.

Please read the following: Unsolicited commercial advertisements are absolutely not permitted on this forum. Other private buy & sell messages should be posted to our Marketplace. For information on how to advertise your service or product click here. Remote Central reserves the right to remove or modify any post that is deemed inappropriate.

Hosting Services by ipHouse