There's a lot to this statement than meets the eye.

Anyone complained about what I charged was asked if they wanted me to be in business when things broke and they needed a service call.

That makes sense to the client, because so many had the experience when things went south all those years ago. THEIR guy was no where to be found.

This is 80% of the burnout....And it is absolutely in their control. PAY US to deal with your half baked product. every single other industry does if the item is under warranty.

Im glad this thread was posted. Burnout is real, I cant say im happy other then the days im making good money, come home to a home and a nice car. Im wrapping up taxes right now (extension) Last year was my best year yet (this year is even better) yet, my profit dwindles (percentage wise) every year. To see the final number for how hard I worked, the grief and overall despair is really hard to look at.

Granted Im doing much better then 75% of people in my age group, I just am not happy. We'll come back from Cedia and get a boost to get us through the busy season. But it wont come without scars.

This industry has got to be the HARDEST out of them all. If I knew what i know know just 10 years ago I would have closed up shop and become an electrician.

This is a great post. I feel that the custom side is going away. Many of my clients that used to get surround sound, universal remotes, equipment in the closet now opt for a soundbar and comcast with apps and talking remote. I have started to install camera systems for those that are willing to pay my rates. With all of the DIY products out there, I find it much harder to make a living..

If my wife would do it, I would rent the house and buy an RV and live full time.. I would hope the rent would offset the cost of my living in an RV. The big issue is insurance...

Many of my friends became cops and fireman. They are retired and pulling in more per year than I make killing myself....

So far I haven't heard of anyone making millions and talking about how great this industry is. Every once in a while I meet someone green who's all enthusiastic about the work we do and how great it all is. In the back of my mind I'm thinking "this guy has lost his mind or he's in total denial"

I do agree that do it yourself products are ruining this industry. Most of them made by companies with far more talented engineers who outnumber those from custom companies. How are they to lure people into working for their half-baked, outdated product?

It's clear that Sonos has been a real disruption in the industry. How long has it been since no one has come up with a real competitor? Again there are those who praise MusicCast and Heos for being a better option. You know what I think of them. Completely out of touch or in some sort of denial. Never have I done so little in built-in speakers and multi-room amps. Those used to be money makers but now I can't bare to sell something that falls short of the Sonos systems that everybody's friend has. The industry really has to work harder to compete with this or they will continue to lose sales in speakers and electronics behind them.

I'm hoping that my kids will have a great career to support me in the future. Right now they want to have serious careers as musicians. Better put a stop to that asap. Thankfully, if that doesn't happen, my wife has a great job and pension that will allow me to retire comfortably.

CI Exit Strategy:

I’m almost up to year 45 in the industry.

I started as an audio repair tech.

I can give you all the transitional things that I’ve done between then and today, but the bottom line is business rolls over completely on a five or 10 year timetable. You constantly have to re-define yourself. You have to adjust. You can’t keep doing the same things that you have been doing and think that you will make it.

You can moan and groan about do it yourself products. The way I see it is, we have so many more options, different things that we can do within our sphere of expertise, that clients do not want to do. That is why we are in business.

There will always be people that want someone who is skilled and trustworthy to do things for them. That spans every decade that I have worked, and it will continue to be that way.

If you are that guy, you will have people who love to tell their friends about you, (or you should be asking them to tell at least three of their friends about you).

If you are getting zero referrals, then maybe the industry is not the problem.

Make sure you are honestly and truly an expert in the products that you install. Don’t fake it. Make sure that you do neat work, not sloppy stuff that people look at and see you do not really care. I am cleaning up on a takeover job now, where cables are strewn about like spaghetti, the rack was done haphazardly, and the whole job was not completed. You’d better make sure you don’t do that kind of work.

And make sure that you are accessible, so if there is a glitch, you are there to save the day. They will brag about you to their friends.

If you meet a builder on the job, make sure that you tell him you are going to do a great job, and make the job run smoothly with your part of the deal. Tell him you want to do a good enough job that he will think about you the next time a client asks about your kind of work.

I think having a nice mix of DIY and CI type products is a necessity in today's environment.

I'm sure you guys will see the new SONOS "Killer" at CEDIA.  Can we come to a collective agreement to throat punch any manufacturer rep that says it's a SONOS "killer"?

We get agitated that SONOS changes their UI on a regular basis, but they don't let their app get old and stale like other manufacturers.

We all know the industry manufacturers need to get their sh!t together and quickly or they won't be long for this world.  They're competing against better designers, programmers, with nearly unlimited funds.  It's going to be an uphill battle for sure.

On an optimistic note, I was really impressed with the new OS that Crestron just released. It looks awesome!  Maybe if some of the other companies follow suit there'll be hope for them.  Control4's new OS is ok too, but not as nice as Crestron.

I've been saying this since the last time I was at CEDIA (2012).  The manufacturers need to go find some hotshot designers that are just cogs in the wheel at Google, Amazon, Apple, back the Brinks truck up to their house and unload a pile of money to get them to redesign everything.

There's zero reason that an app for a $99 product would be head and shoulders above a product that a customer is paying thousands of dollars to get. The industry manufacturers need to start innovating, and start making products that work for the CI without frustration.

Take for example a nest outdoor camera... sleek design, 1080p, records audio & video, two way communication, 8x zoom, easy to use app. A 2 pack is $300.

Now compare that to what your options are.

You can say..."Mr. Smith, we're not going to use a nest cam because our system is better"....but it needs to actually be better, it can't just be lip service.

You can buy a 3 pack of Eero for $399.  Compared to what you're selling...But your system doesn't have a sweet app, easy parental controls, etc.

How about the manufacturers create apps like this, and do something in the way of RMR, and give their dealers a percentage based on their installations?  Dealers would be more likely to install products that they were going to get a little "job security" from.

I'd like to hear from those that say they have all they work they could ever want/do or those that only do $X00K jobs or higher. I would assume these folks have plenty of cashflow to make an exit. Does not seem like there are any of us in-between being flush with money or broke...

While we can be injured on the job, we don't risk our lives the way a cop or fireman does. And, they're in a union.

I think you have that backwards.

Mac, don’t you work for a large company? How is it going there? What are your struggles?

I actually spoke to a colleague down in Houston that I used to occasionally work with, recently. He mentioned a guy that shifted his entire business to just installing the DIY gear for people, whether he supplied it, or they did, and he's apparently doing very well with that strategy. With the heavy shift towards Sonos I've been making over the last year, it almost seems like not that bad of an idea. One of my dirty reps met with me yesterday, and claims another dealer, albeit in a much larger market, was making $5k a week on Eero installs alone. Definitely something to consider.

And it really does seem hard to beat some of these products, especially from a user friendliness aspect. Ring's security and surveillance stuff is stupid easy, and has a better app than most of the nicer systems I install. It's definitely hard to sell against that, and maybe that guy down in Houston and the guy in Columbus making $5k a week installing Eeros are on the smarter track than any of us would care to give them credit for.

It's definitely something to think about, and in my dinky little market, it just might be a better approach


As a guy who used to work for a large company, I almost miss it sometimes. But the company I worked for was pretty disorganized for a place that did as much volume as they did. The chaos of mismanagement made that place as stressful as running my own business.

I work for a company that does large projects but its a small company. As an employee i am insulated from a lot of the struggles mentioned in this thread...but...i perfectly understand financial struggle.

In my 20's i had all the time in the world so i saved nothing. In my early 30's i bought a house. By my mid 30's i was selling the house at a loss and maxing out my credit cards because of the recession. Late 30's business was good again and i got my cards paid off and started to save a little and bought another house. At some point my brother moved in with me and started giving me $1000 a month. Things were really good then i blinked.

End of 2016 i bought the new house...a couple weeks later my brother got sick and died a couple months later. My girlfriend lost her job right after and didn't start work again for 10 months mosty due to depression about losing my brother. At 44 the cards are all maxed out again and the savings account is empty. In a year or so things should be back on track as long as the economy doesn't fail us again. If we enter another recession im going to be a smart business man and file chapter 7 right away. Last time i stupidly paid all my bills while the causers of the collapse got bailed out with my tax dollars.

Ain't that da truth

I work for a big company that does a mix of big and small jobs. Mid 6 figure is when I start to think of it as a big job these days. Getting talent who want to work is our biggest struggle. That and shitty hardware, manufacture QC has gone down the tubes. We tried a new line last year and 66% of our new gear was bad at our busiest time of the year.

We have so much work going on myself and our alarm manager were pulling wire to keep techs moving on projects this week. I'm 50 and he is 63. I was just handed a $500K that has an X-mas finish so I am already worried about the holiday season. Last year kicked my ass, with many days coming home well after midnight.

I got hit pretty hard during the recession also getting involved with a shady character so I had to financially start over. Knock on wood I have zero credit card debt and a decent retirement fund going these days. Granted I live in a very expensive part of the planet so cost of living is high. I do OK on the pay scale so I am far from going hungry.