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Topic:
Is anyone building enclosures for ceiling speakers?
This thread has 49 replies. Displaying posts 31 through 45.
Post 31 made on Monday December 18, 2017 at 10:46
Brad Humphrey
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On December 17, 2017 at 20:55, tomciara said...
I am not convinced that imaging and sound stage are affected by improving the bottom end. I haven't read anything that leads me to believe otherwise.

Maybe the terms are the issue. I consider soundstage and imaging to be the process that lets you close your eyes and "see" where singers or musicians are on the stage. Considering the primary frequencies of most instruments and voices, lowering the bass response from 80-100Hz down to 40-60Hz isn't going to open up the sound stage and help me pinpoint a guitar, violin, or vocalist.

I did say the area between 120Hz to 260Hz. Frequencies below 120Hz (roughly) are omni-direction and have nothing to do with imaging/sound stage.
​In addition, yes = the midrange and high frequency are going to be the most influential in imaging. The mid-bass region will contribute to imaging but at a lesser degree. Looking at the 'Fletcher-Munson Curve' can give an idea why. That and the lower the frequency the less direction the sound is.
Post 32 made on Monday December 18, 2017 at 11:10
Brad Humphrey
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On December 18, 2017 at 09:31, FP Crazy said...
I always assumed that the woofer drivers in standard ceiling speakers are "infinite baffle" Q specification? Meaning they typically sound better in a large enclosure (like an attic). Not spec'd for some small sealed enclosure?

Many speakers are considered working in infinite baffle (free air) when the enclosure space is at least 2x-4x (can't remember which) more than the Vas parameter (Compliance equivalent volume). Whether that be an entire attic, truck of a car, or a box built larger than that.
​Generally speakers made for infinite baffle use, will also have a low Cms parameter (stiff suspension).

Most in-wall / in-ceiling speakers are going to fall in-between 1-2 cubic foot to be IB. But you only need that much space if you want to play to the lowest frequency with no changing of the sound. Many times using an enclosure 1/2 that size will be fine with little change to the 'usable' low frequency.
With a subwoofer in use and a high-pass xover on the built-ins, you would only need 1/4 of that space or less.
OP | Post 33 made on Monday December 18, 2017 at 18:09
Craig Aguiar-Winter
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On December 18, 2017 at 09:56, goldenzrule said...
I'm not saying that your idea is bad, just curious as to why no subwoofers? Is it a matter of placement? I know there are a handful of manufacturers that make in ceiling subs to match up with their ceiling speakers. Again, just curious as to why rule out the sub, not saying it's necessarily the better path to go.

I'll admit I've never used in ceiling subs. But I like the idea. Placement is an issue. It's hard enough to put four speakers in a kitchen and keep the symetry with all the pot lights and such. Finding a spot for a single sub seems problematic and then Im concerned that I'll have chosen that one magic spot that sounds terrible. Can't exactly move it after wards. With the sub comes the amplifier and the extra expense. KEF has a line of subs to match their in ceiling speakers and they can be installed to run passively off the same L&R amplifier outputs as the speakers, but not to the same level of quality as if you ran off of a dedicated amp.

Someone else made the point that people just want back ground music and adding a sub would take it to the next level but adding it to every zone would get expensive.

I'm certainly open to using subs in the ceiling, but in this case I'm just exploring how to make the speakers them selves sound as good as possible. This would be relevant even if adding a sub as well?

At the risk of thread drift I'll ask where are people placing in ceiling subs for the best sound? Right in the centre of the ceiling, as far from a corner as possible? Right in a ceiling/wall corner? Using an in-wall sub?

Craig.
My wife says I can't do sarcasm. She says I just sound like an a$$hole.
Post 34 made on Monday December 18, 2017 at 18:18
goldenzrule
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Craig, I haven't used them, but there are several manufactures that use a boxed sub that hides in the ceiling with a small "port" as the exit point. It would probably be easier to blend I to a busy ceiling.




I agree providing the best possible sound quality with the speakers themselves first is best, just adding another alternative for situations that might call for it.
OP | Post 35 made on Monday December 18, 2017 at 18:46
Craig Aguiar-Winter
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Thanks for the link.

This subwoofer was discussed in another thread I had started about the same. At that time I was looking at options for my own kitchen.

I looked into the Sonance offering. I contacted the rep and he did follow up but never got back to me again so I presume they don't want me selling them , haha. [email protected]&d carries some sonance product but not those.

I would like to have access to something like that where it could be easily mixed in with out lights.

Craig
My wife says I can't do sarcasm. She says I just sound like an a$$hole.
Post 36 made on Monday December 18, 2017 at 18:53
goldenzrule
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Not sure if Origin sells up there, but that could be another option.
Post 37 made on Monday December 18, 2017 at 20:21
Mr. Brad
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Why not just us a Triad, with an enclosure that is specifically designed and calibrated for the drivers being used? Add a sub if you more than a normal drive can product.
OP | Post 38 made on Monday December 18, 2017 at 20:42
Craig Aguiar-Winter
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My mistake, I didn't look close enough to see that was Origin Acoustics. I'll look into it.

Triad is also worth a look for sure but again I'll have to see where I can get it.

Craig
My wife says I can't do sarcasm. She says I just sound like an a$$hole.
Post 39 made on Monday December 18, 2017 at 22:47
Mr. Brad
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I believe Triad is more readily available since they were bought by C4.
OP | Post 40 made on Tuesday December 19, 2017 at 06:51
Craig Aguiar-Winter
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I investigated Triad last night and they are exclusively distributed in Canada (that happens when your population is equal to the of California) by a company in Richmond, BC. I dealt with them years ago. I wonder if my account is still active.

Trouble is I hate paying shipping, haha I'm fortunate to have three places local to me that I drive by at least once a week. Not really a valid complaint I guesss. Haha.

Craig.
My wife says I can't do sarcasm. She says I just sound like an a$$hole.
Post 41 made on Tuesday December 19, 2017 at 09:18
highfigh
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On December 19, 2017 at 06:51, Craig Aguiar-Winter said...
I investigated Triad last night and they are exclusively distributed in Canada (that happens when your population is equal to the of California) by a company in Richmond, BC. I dealt with them years ago. I wonder if my account is still active.

Trouble is I hate paying shipping, haha I'm fortunate to have three places local to me that I drive by at least once a week. Not really a valid complaint I guesss. Haha.

Craig.

YOU shouldn't be paying for shipping, your clients should. Someone (client) thinks they shouldn't pay shipping when they live in a place where the population is as widely dispersed as in Canada?
My mechanic told me, "I couldn't repair your brakes, so I made your horn louder."
OP | Post 42 made on Tuesday December 19, 2017 at 09:32
Craig Aguiar-Winter
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I agree Emphatically . I do mark up my product to account for shipping. The only time that doesn't work is when I have to be competitive with the market price. Likely wouldn't be an issue with Triad. Also my orders normally qualify for free shipping anyway.

I should've edited that I say I hate shipping. Period. Stuff gets delivered to my house, and it's rare that someone is home to receive it, so I wind up having to drive quite a distance to go to the drop location. It's less convenient for me than going to the wholesalers I normally deal with when I'm in the area.

Craig
My wife says I can't do sarcasm. She says I just sound like an a$$hole.
Post 43 made on Tuesday December 19, 2017 at 11:10
dcci
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Haven't read this thread all of that closely, but I don't think anyone has mentioned the Dynamat Dynabox:

[Link: dynamat.com]
Post 44 made on Tuesday December 19, 2017 at 13:18
tomciara
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On December 19, 2017 at 09:32, Craig Aguiar-Winter said...

I should've edited that I say I hate shipping. Period. Stuff gets delivered to my house, and it's rare that someone is home to receive it, so I wind up having to drive quite a distance to go to the drop location. It's less convenient for me than going to the wholesalers I normally deal with when I'm in the area.

Craig

Craig, it is for that reason that I pay a couple hundred dollars a year at one of those mailbox places. In addition to having a "business address" for my mail to go to, rather than the house, there is a place for things to get shipped to. He texts me when large boxes have arrived, and I can pick them up on the way home from work. You might consider that.
"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing ever happened." - Winston Churchill
OP | Post 45 made on Tuesday December 19, 2017 at 14:24
Craig Aguiar-Winter
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Thanks Tom.

If I start using a supplier that requires shipping on a regular basis I'll consider that for sure. That's a great idea.

Craig.
My wife says I can't do sarcasm. She says I just sound like an a$$hole.
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