Oh I get the point. And based on the fact that ALLLLL the C4 dealers told us TC dealers tough shit, this was a fantastic business decision on C4's part....

Well, the shoe is on the other foot now in my eyes. The position we were in with our clients being left in the dark is now, to a lesser extent, where you and other C4 dealers are now. Had C4 dealers called it like it was, shady, then I might have some sympathy now. Instead, I just point out that C4 dealers should have instead learned from that experience and NOT integrate Sonos with any control system. They chose not to learn at that point and now it is burning them all in the ass.

I do not feel burned by it at all, and I have lots of C4/SONOS systems out there. It is a way to get in front of clients I have not seen in a while. And we can work around it easy enough by either selling them new hardware, or simply instructing them to use the SONOS app for control of the music. Most people are not upset or disgruntled by that solution, and it ends up being far more intuitive of an interface IMHO, once they get the hang of it.

My only hope is that with the cooperative effort between the 3rd parties and SONOS, they will expand the usability of the endorsed driver and make it at least somewhat useful within control systems. Right now, it is basically akin to an FM radio with preset buttons. :\

I am not sure what will happen to the Elan drivers, both the Elan on and the Core one. Since Elan was not included in the endorsed program, will those drivers cease to work on a certain date or is it a wait and see situation? As of now, I believe they still work ok....I have not heard any differently from clients anyhow.

Moving forward, I would not sell Sonos with the mindset of integrating it. I think you run too big of a risk of all support just going away. Sure they offered a sanctioned driver (that is as useless as tits on a bull), but Sonos is the type of company that could decide at a moments notice that it is not working out the way they want it to and poof, integration is gone. I like Sonos for standalone systems, and feel it cannot be beat for that type of system. But once integration is desired or needed, its just not the right product. If my clients ask for a full blown automation system with keypads and seamless integration of their music, I let them know what the options are for that, and if they wish to go with a service that is not supported, I let them know that as well. I can still provide music with that service, but it will not integrate, and I explain why I will not do it. I have not really had an issue with that aspect since I made the change.

This may be fine for a 1 to 1 system (sonos piece for EACH ROOM) but once you have a matrix involved it gets more complicated for clients. its nothing short of a disaster. I have not been met with the same "attitude" as you have been lucky to of received. I have been hit with the complete opposite. :(

Greg- you simply dont get it. Brady outlined it for you...

I just pulled sonos out of a quote (5k worth) and replaced it with control4 parts & pieces. put a HEOS in the quote but for now sonos cannot be sold as part of an integrated system

I would say Sonos should have never been sold as part of an integrated system. We have all had this discussion many times over the years here and IP.

There have always been 2 camps

1. Don't do it, they could fist you at any moment

2. The hacked driver is great! You guys don't know what you are talking about!!!

Sonos is a great product if it it stand alone. Integrating it into another control system would, in my opinion, create a whole lot of unnecessary headaches for the customer and the dealer.
I'm a Crestron dealer and even though there is a sonos module, I still wouldn't integrate it. Full functionality is still not available with the module so I personally stay away from it. For us it's much better to spec Crestron products vs messing with 3rd party control.

IS Casa tunes even relevant as a C4 control option?

What is C4 missing that Sonos can provide?
isnt the only major service they are missing Spotify?
they have Pandora, Deezer, Tidal, Napster, Rhapsody, Tune in and Airplay built into the controller dont they?

No, I haven't. And I wasn't knocking the current versions. Just asking if they improved the speed.

I am installing my 1st Sonos system. We have a Total Control system in place. I plan to program it to switch sonos to the tv input when needed and control the volume. All music stuff will be done with the sonos app. The sonos app is great. Why bother with 3rd party integration when the native app can't be beat?

Them are fightin' words 'round here.

On a side note, I agree with you 100%. A single UI for everything is less exciting once you realize you can do 1000% more with the 5 or 6 native apps you apps you could be using instead.

But I still have clients of the generation that cannot understand how to even open an app let alone use more than that, so I am not ready to jump off the control system wagon just yet.

FYI, TV sound usually comes on automatically when the TV comes on with a PlayBar. Other inputs can also be set to autoplay.

FWIW, I had to roll back Sonos driver in a C4 system as (previously working) sound was not playing through Sonos from my TV after updating to Sonos endorsed drivers. Quote from dealer, "Sonos can control the volume, but was not switching. Tried reading Sonos, no change. Looked up endorsed Sonos driver info. As of that update it can no longer switch to the local input of the Sonos. Change all Sonos drivers to 8.1.2."

A single UI for everything is less exciting once you realize you can do 1000% more with the 5 or 6 native apps you apps you could be using instead.

^

Rock solid sonos/spotify integration solution.