I don't get this, the other day I got a call from MS telling me that my PC might be a risk. I won't disagree on what Termmul is, but the second you "understand it if an ID,builder,gc or trunk slammer" then forget you know who he is because he posted it here and just look at it as a call that came from out of the blue. I know I have seen people "but look at his website", but for all anyone there knew it was the ID that called in order to either get the whole sale price in order to negotiate better or to steal away the sale.


I am not a fortress dealer, but looking at their website and looking at some of the other posts in here, they do appear to be a lot like one of the higher end seating companies I use. If that is the case then it might not be that simple. If they are custom chairs with tons of decisions for each part (width, back, arms....) then it is not like someone else said calling them and saying 3 beige chairs. The issue might not be the region, but the configuration itself. I would compare it to someone getting a quote for an install (TV X, receiver Y, speakers Z......) and them going to the disty and saying I need (what was written in the quote).


that I would agree with you, there is no reason a supplier should give a discount to protect an existing dealer. The only issue is that it has not been verified. We only have that supposedly the ID said it to termmuls. Honestly if they had decided that they would not accept him as a new dealer then why would they do that?

Amen

You obviously havent ever had to deal with an ID on a project of this caliber (which is OK, most of the time i dont wish them on my worst enemy ;)

ID runs the job, the client just says yay or nay sometimes they dont even get to have a say in it. technically the ID runs all the interior stuff like finishes, furniture seating blah blah blah. Most have a one track mind and we dont know, termmul could have mentioned on jobs in the past that they can provide the entire package, ID hears nothing because shes thinking about which horidly overpriced chachka will suit the end table and aid in the overal "design"

ID dropped the ball big time, client has loyalty to termmul and the ID has worked with them in the past, company fortress is playing favorites too is doing nothing but providing the seating for the interior of the theater. there is no loyalty going on here, ID just didnt know or slipped that he can provide everything for her.

i just cannot comprehend how some of you guys can defend fortress here. Ill tell you one thing, if i had a salesmen and found out that we may of gotten a job due to "inside" information and my salesmen lowered the price just enough to win the job I would fire him immediately and call the client up and tell them that we unfairly bid the project due to inside information and out of honesty and integrity we wish to withdraw our proposal. The appropriate administrative actions have been taken to ensure this never happens again and we sincerely apologize for the actions of one of our former employee's.

I disagree with this, there is a difference between client and ID and so one of them could be loyal while the other one knows nothing and does not care . We also don't know at what stage of development we are talking about or where this project/seating originated from. So it is hard for anyone of us to say why the ID did not go to him.

There is no evidence of a dealer taking someone elses intellectual property aside from the manufacturers "guess". Based on a post in this thread i finally went to the fortress site where you can find every product with model numbers. The ID could have created the "proposal" meaning the other "protected fortress dealer" was the trunk slammer being brought in to provide seating directly to the ID at a lower cost. The OP was already on the job handling AV related matters.

I haven't dealt with a job this size, you're right.

How would you feel about a salesman who came across a quote due to "inside" information and just copied it to the tee after someone worked hard on it? You don't feel that companies should have some sort of protection from things like that?

It happens all the time and its disgusting imo. Whos to blame? Dumb @ss dealers who work for free. "here you go mr.hasnt paid me yet...complete specs for everything you need!" "What do you mean you want to buy it somewhere else and haggle with me on installation rates?"

thats assumed in my post with "inside information" yes, i would fire him immediately. Technically doing this is against the law because quotes are IP of the company providing them, its a grey area and no one has the money to take someone to court over a quote. But yes it happens all the time, I dont accept quotes from another company when a client offers them to me, its just wrong.

your right we dont know if termmul was provided the quote from dealer X (fortress's baby) through the ID. I doubt though becasue most ID's work on a cost + basis. she probably designed the chairs and gave it to company x then found out that termmul can do chairs so she gave him her design to be quoted that way she can see who comes in lower and she can make more money on them. HENCE why fortress lowered dealer price so dealer X can win the job.

Bottom line is this, if turmul hasn't had an interview with the client but knows what they want to order, it's someone else's job. It just that simple. It is sad that the ID brought someone else in, but that's business.

I completely respect your integrity and commend you for it. If someone from my firm had used unethical inside information to gain a sale, the same actions would likely be taken.

What we all are forgetting is that this dirty, unethical, slimy, sleazy inside information was simply that Fortress called an existing dealer to inform them that a non dealer was trying to sign up for the line to steal a sale that the existing dealer had already put the design work and sales pitch into.

I will eat my words if Fortress offered a discount, though I don't believe they did. The other dealer may have, though they would have no reason to as they were under the assumption that Terrmul was not going to be signed up as a dealer. I still believe the ID and/or client is playing everyone against each other. From Terrmul's long standing relationship with the client I would lean towards the ID.

Exactly, you might expect it from customers but not other dealers.

This dealer somehow built enough value in their product and has enough support from the manufacturer that they are somewhat shielded from that.

I have noticed that termil is MIA since his ethics were called into question. When you point the finger at someone else, take notice at how many are pointed back at you.

The reality is that Fortress assumed that a non dealer was trying to sign up for the line just to steal a sale. They had no proof.

They had 2 ethical choices.

#1 Tell the OP sorry you cant be a dealer in your area. Problem solved.

#2 Ignore the OPs information request. Obviously not the grown up thing to do but at least he would have went away.

Instead they chose to contact the other dealer and tell them what was going on. Sounds like they are really standing up for existing dealers. Or...they were afraid that the OP might steer the client towards another product if he couldn't get access to Fortress. Sounds like a great time to offer a discount...just before the new guy suggests a new product.

Adding...

My only issue is the sharing of client information. I would have been just as repulsed if the manufacturer told the OP "hey one of our other dealers is bidding that job...buzz off". I think there should be a certain level of confidence that you wont have manufacturers getting in the middle of your business.

Want to be an ethical company? Quit playing gossiping high school teen age girl.

Speak for yourself. I've never met or talked to Termul so he's not any more or less an acquaintance than you or 95% of the rest of you on this formum. This is a non sequitor.

This is about ethics and actions, at least for me. It does seem Fortress has a lot of fans and their ire is raised, therefore the vigorous defense and application of blame on Termul, if not unfounded assumptions about Termul's actions.

The facts are the ID got a quote, talked to Termul, he's a theater guy and said 'I can do the chairs.' And that's how the party started. You have to make a lot of assumptions about Superior Salesmanship, as if everything can be solved by better salesmanship: if that that's the case, Fortress or the other dealer could have responded better as well. That's pretty clear. Despite the possibilities of the ID being set up as a dealer or Termul being a slammer, there's no evidence this is happening.

ID helping a client, existing CI is trying to be the continuing CI. New dealer is trying to sell theater chairs, chair company is trying to protect their existing dealer.

Fortress and the other dealer didn't figure that out in their vigorous protection of each, but that all went out the window when they dropped their pants on price.

^ This...

The only thing you missed in your summary is the possibility that maybe the chair company was afraid to lose the sale so they intervened with a discount to make sure their guy was chosen.