Joshua,

I'm a EE, and viewed by the CI's here, as a DIY'er. But I think I may be able to give you an idea of how to proceed here.

You posted the following:

"To try out the product you'll need:
- A PC (hardware requirements are minimal) with Windows XP or later
- At least one iOS device (iPhone, iPad, or iPod touch) running iOS 4 or later (iOS 5 or later required to test AirTunes functionality)
- Several sound devices (one for each zone). We prefer USB based DACs, but any sound device should work. If needed, we can provide some for you to test with.
- Speakers and amplifier for each zone"

For me, this brings up lots of questions, and doesn't give me much idea of what Simphony (which I'm assuming is software that runs under Windows) really does, and how a system looks.

OK, I need a PC, and apparently DAC's are connected to it, via USB. A DAC, digital to analog converter, is used to create the analog signal to feed to the amp. So, how does this system connect to sources? Does it only play back digitized files? If so, what types? How about internet radio? Is this handled in your software, or other software that has to run concurrently? Since the DAC's are USB, I assume such a system is only well suited to the computer, sources, and amps located in the rack? (Assuming as USB doesn't travel 100's of feet cheaply.)

So, if I understand the above correctly, why is this better than WMC or iTunes? Since the hardware is not proprietary, then the interface is largely undefined, and how do you control the sources from the zones? Does your system include software to configure IR and serial control of the various sources? Does it present users with a nice UI in the zones on their portable device? Are the controls that have been configured for the sources depiced in the software presented on their portable device? Do you have a way to handle TOAD vs discrete commands?

Unless you paint a picture of how you use this, and what it provides that is better than what is available, the people who choose to test this will likely be people with time on their hands, who just want to try some free software.

I tried to get some answers via your website, but it is the ubiquitous stealth company website that says nothing except your name.

Joshua only requested that you contact him directly for more details, nothing more. To qualify, you would need a few basic products already in place. If that's not your game, ignore it.

This is not necessarily the place to spell out all the details of the product -- it is pre-beta, which is why he is looking for feedback. Should he spell his guts in a public forum to potentially show his hand to competitors?

Maybe this guy is FOS. Maybe he's the next Sonos. This is (or should be) a good place for startups to figure out our industry. We were all startups at some point.

I say cut the guy some slack. My view is he is asking for help from the ci community to make a better product for the ci community

spill. A dismboweling metaphor.

Yeah, I think everybody was too ready to jump all over him. If I had been here at the start, I might have joined in.

I guess he supplied enough information for us to say "oh, great, not this again," but properly held back until he knew he was talking to someone who would really be interested.

I'd love to do it, and if I didn't have a job, I would do it. Otherwise he'd have to pay me for my time, which of course would be disappointing for him if I found it deserved to be ripped to shreds.

However, any product that requires a PC is subject to the vagaries of PCs. Why, just last night my PC wanted to update and I let it update. ALL PROGRAMS HAD BEEN SHUT DOWN when I came back this morning. So lemme ask you: you want to install a product that is guaranteed to stop at some point? Are those service calls free? Does he pay us for those service calls in advance?

Indeed, proprietary hardware is the way to make a product that doesn't do things you don't want it to do. The stupid auto chime going off when you don't have enough window washing fluid is an example of a product that messes with the one thing you want to do -- drive -- because it tries to do too many things... because it can. Because then it has to, in order to stay current.

I will give my opinion without seeing the product. I make profit selling Crestron, Niles, URC, ect... Your trying to market a product that uses a PC and an I-Phone ? Where do I make money on this ? The USB cable ? This sounds more like a DIY product.

It can join the ranks of Sonos, Nest, those $49 Belkin iOS controlled outlet switches at HD, etc.

maybe people still have their panties in a twist over the AP dbag and this was just posted too soon after that mess.

Sonos is a DIY product, yet lots of dealers make lots of money with it because of the attachments.

Even if this is "just" a PC product, if it's really good (who knows?), you're selling a complete multiroom audio system except for one piece of hardware (the hub). You sell an upgraded network, speakers, amps, configuration, whatever.

Again, who knows if it's any good, who knows if the company plans to support the channel. who knows if he'll find any willing participants here.

It doesn't hurt to ask.

Let me first say I've followed this forum for quite a while, including making a couple of posts, so I knew what sort of ribbing I was in for when I posted this thread. I have a thick skin so no harm done -- but thank you to those that asked for some mercy for me :).

Rather than flood this thread with a bunch of individual responses from me, let me see if I can answer many of the posts at once...

First, we are not looking for any money. What we are offering is to provide a selection of CIs a beta version of Simpfony, free of charge. We are interested in your feedback on the entire product, both from an installation/setup perspective as well as from a user perspective. We recognize that your requirements and challenges are unique and we are very interested in how we might improve or change Simpfony to meet some of those requirements. We're even willing to provide DACs (either integrated with amplifiers or standalone) on a loan basis for those that might need them.

I will try to provide a bit more technical detail, but Julie hit the nail on the head in that I'm limited to what I can say in a public forum as Simpfony is still a pre-release product. Obviously after an initial retail release I'd be able to discuss in much more detail on a public forum. For now, I'll do the best I can, but additional detail would require an executed non-disclosure agreement (those pesky lawyers)...

Simpfony is not limited to only a local library of audio files, nor is it some sort of "shell" that simply calls other programs. It is a complete, full featured distributed audio solution. All functionality is native to the product. As far as audio sources go we have quite a few, with more on the way. That of course includes many of the most popular online music services -- sorry I can't spell them out specifically here (but I'm sure you guys could infer a reasonable list based on your experience). What I /can/ share is that, in addition to those online services, we also currently have plugins for:
- Local libraries (such as iTunes or Windows Media Player)
- Line inputs (digital and analog, depending on the input devices)
- RAOP (Apple AirTunes), multiple endpoints without any additional hardware, complete with full metadata and artwork support
- Internet radio

The initial release backend operates as a Windows service. For those of you that are weary of Windows, the product is probably not for you at this point. That feedback in itself is valuable however, as we continue to evaluate internally the potential roadmap for other server platforms.

Controllers (client software) are presently completed for Windows and iOS platforms (including full support for both iPhone/iPod and iPad devices). Controllers for Android devices and Mac OSX are in progress. We also have plugins for TCP/IP and serial based interfacing to external systems.

Obviously I am unable discuss pricing, licensing schemes, margins, or any of that sort of information here.

I hope that gives everyone a little more information about Simpfony. I'd be happy to try and answer any additional questions you guys might have, if I am able to.

Thanks.

If/when you have an Apple back end keep us posted; nearly all of our clients are using Apple. I'd be happy to support and provide feedback as such for a fellow PA guy.

My first thought was, "I don't need or want another DA system". I wish you luck, but why????

Can you comment on the multizone capability? Specifically, I'd like to know about support for:

- matrix switching line level inputs and outputssupport for

- receiving multiple IP streams/instances from the same source

- distributing a given IP source to multiple zones.

Thanks.

Great response. I think it covers the important questions and gives a clearer picture of what you are working on. Sounds cool so far. I wish i had the time to beta test.

FYI...an idea of what integrators are currently using.

Mirage [Link: autonomic-controls.com]

Pointing this out so you understand what options we already have.

Sure.

In Simpfony an audio output is assigned at configuration time to a particular zone. What is actually playing to that output is managed by the system, it handles the matrix switching internally. From a setup perspective the audio output assigned to a zone would typically be directly connected to the amplifiers/speakers for that zone, no additional matrix switch is required.

Any audio source may be distributed to any number of zones simultaneously. A line input source is treated like any other source in the system, so there's no limitation on what or how many zones it may be distributed to. Multiple simultaneous instances of the same audio source are support for those that it makes sense for (see below). For example if an installation had 10 zones, the user could play 10 different selections from the same local library at the same time. There's no limit to the number of instances of the same audio source, or the combination of different audio sources in use simultaneously.

Obviously for audio sources such as line inputs it doesn't make sense to have more than one instance for the same input simultaneously (there's only one physical connection per line input). Simpfony understands which audio sources have such limitations and handles them appropriately. Also /some/ online-based services may have licensing limitations which may prevent us from allowing multiple simultaneous streams from the same service/account.

I hope that covers your questions, if not please let me know.

I dont know how i missed this thread, But im with Longshot. Anything computer based scares me just as much as HDMI distribution. That being said it sounds like you have a cool concept, im just not seeing it as a true CI product.

Or are you looking at getting pros advice to bring to market for DIYers that like to tinker? thats where I think your real market is IMO. Can you elaborate on how this will help CI's? Like hasbeen said, this needs to be a game changer.