I am curious if anyone has not only successfully interfaced to a security panel but was happy with the results. There is very big difference between the written protocol and an installed security system with 90-250 zones under monitored conditions.

Which security panels have you been happiest interfacing to and which have you been least happy. Or put an other way which protocol worked best in the field and which promissed a lot but delivered less when the system was under monitoring. DMP may have be a good panel but it is a very poor system to monitor if you want to emulate a security keypad.

Alan

I guess the other side of the question is what are you interfacing it to?

I've been pretty happy with the GE Interlogix Caddx and Advent systems with AMX.

I will be using Crestron. In automation I was actually speaking of either AMX or Crestron. What I wish to avoid is a protocol that looks like it will work but upon installaton under monitored conditions proves to be less than advertised ( like the DMP ). I have been asked to do this but I have found that sometimes, no, is the wisest word in an automator's vocabulary.

I have read many protocols and many of them like the DMP seem to have the goods but may not in fact. I have heard good things about the GE. I am less interested in what the protocol says it will do and actual field experience with the unit under real world conditions

[Link: groups.yahoo.com]

I think I've seen your name around the Crestron group before.... Maybe not.... but its definatly one of the best user/programmer resources onthe web for crestron related issues.

We use GE panels on all our jobs w/ Crestron...Never had a problem....let me know and I will e-mail you our module...
Aaron

I participate on the Yahoo site and they are a good resource. I did a search there and I know what the opinions on that site are. Let's assume programming the control system, or AMX vs Crestron, is not an issue. The issue is what has worked in the field. Too many on the yahoo site are only programmers. Not a bad thing when you need programming help but this is a different issue. I am interested those with field experince.

Programmers read a protocol and write a program accordingly. They have ( maybe ) a test sysetm on the bench and throw code at it. But there is a big difference between the bench and an actual installation. 8 fake zones on a test bench are very different from 96 or 128 installed zones in the field. An even greater difference when you include monitoring. How fast is the protocol in these conditions? How good or useful is the feedback it provides? Does the protocol, in fact, do what it says in a field installation or does it fall short-as it often does.

I am supposed to program a security (amoung other sub systems ). I have not committed to do this and I do not want to make my decision to accept the job on just a written protocol the security sub hands me. I do have some experience. I am not asking which is easier to write code for and from a code point of view AMX is no different then Crestron. If you can program you can make either work. I am not looking for a which is better control system argument- it is a meaningless argument, in my opinion, as each at the hands of a skilled programmer can do the job-but which security subsystems have in fact lived up to its protocol.

I am not interested if you wrote the code or if you had someone in house or outsourced it. I do want to know if your experience with that subsystem lived up to yours and your client's expectations. I have found that field animals like myself are a better source of this sort of information than programmers.

And the GE is one that I have heard very good things about. The operative word is "heard." I am seeking a wider range of opinions. I suspect the security firm will want to install a Ademco. I may have the juice to force the issue in my direction but if I have to play hardball I do want to be sure that the protocol can do what it says.

Alan

Do I sense some hostility?

To be Blunt... I doubt your going to find very many people on Remotecentral(if any) with experience programming, Installing and testing 96-128 zone security systems on a Crestron(Or amx for that matter)

I've done the Advent systems up to about a dozen or so zones on an AMX with good results. feedback was quick and reliable. Cant speaker for a system of the magnatude you describe...... I would assme a Pro2 could handle it though.

Audible Solutions,
As Impaqt as pointed out already the GE is a good one to use..WE have done a GE interlogix system with 32 zones in use on a PRO2 and had no problems at all..As a matter of fact, The hvac , alarm and other products,were much easier to interface than any of the myriad of A/V stuff..We had to push the alarm company into using it..After they did though they loved the system..Crestron has the modules alredy written in simpl so it was just a matter of changing graphics..And yes the alarm has been the most stable peice of gear in the home..no bugs at all..worked like a rock from day one..even while working out the Crestron bugs..


THXRick

Hostility? Just looking for info. I did not want to get into a AMX vs Crestron debate. If your experience is with AMX then I want to learn of the experience. And its not from the programming side that I am interested. You can own a company or be an installer for a company or the point man on a job. I can do the programming. I lack the experience with the subsystem and I do not wish to get this experience the hard way. Either control system can control any subsystem assuming a skilled programmer. You have answered some of my questions. You have had success with the GE with up to 12 zones on an AMX system.

12 zones does not seem like a lot if you are looking at an entire house. Is that correct? Do you only give partial control of the sysetm to the client or am I using incorrect nomenclature. I assume a zone in security equals some status point, door(s), window(s), smoke, glass break or PIR. I would have thought that you would want to turn the touch panel into a virtual security keypad and so you would be a virtual RS-485 device. That presupposes all information available to the keypad should be available to the touch panel. Would this not presuppose more than 12 zones? Or are you speaking of 12 keypads or 12 rooms?

Average system I've integrated has been

Keypad in Master Closet, Keypad in Closet by front door (Back up in case Control system goes down)

4 Motions, 3 Entrys, 4-6 Glass Breaks, Flood Sensor.

I 've done a couple with individual window contacts, but cant remeber any that went past 10 or so... I'd have to pull up some of my programs for an exact count... so maybe I've done a 20 zone system..... Just havent had the opertunity yet to do a larger home yet... Mostly 2000-3500Sqft...

That being said... I wouldnt hesitate to recomend the GE system on a larger job.

If you can make the system work with 8 or 12 zones it is going to work with 128 or even 1000 zones. That is assuming you set the alarm system up correctly. While we haven't worked with Crestron or AMX we do ELAN systems with GE/ITI Alarm systems and it doesn't care how many zones you have. Just that the interface between the two systems is correct.

Robbie S

There is an issue of scalability. Updating 12 zones may not be an issue. 30 events may be an other and 200 still an other. It would depend on the control system and the protocol. I would not assume that a 12 zone system would work as well when expanded to 128 zones. But it depends on what your expectations are and what you are trying to do. If you are opening a door and want to use that information to turn on a light it's one thing. If that iformation takes 6 seconds to make its way to your control system it is an other. If all you want to do is arm and disarm the system it might not matter. Every com port has its limitations as do most communications buses.

Alan

I've been *installing* security systems since '91, and Crestron control systems since '95. When integrating the two, I prefer the touchpanel as the primary user interface, so it must be able to perform almost all the functions of the alarm keypad it will replace. I usually install a keypad in the Master Closet, and another in the equipment room, but under normal circumstances the homeowner never sees them.

Although there are many alarm panels with serial (or even Ethernet) interfaces, few offer the *complete* functionality necessary to fully emulate the alarm keypad through the touchpanel.

Here are a couple of important protocol "features" to look for:

1. "Passing" of keypad codes entered -- this allows the alarm panel to keep track of user codes entered, and is beneficial for two reasons. The panel's Event History will show who armed or disarmed the system, and the user codes don't have to be stored in the control system's program.

2. Extraction of Event History Log from security panel, so it can be viewed on the touchpanels.

3. Extraction of zone and user names from security panel, so they can be displayed on the touchpanel, without having to be entered into the program.

4. Full status (tripped, trouble, bypassed, etc.) of zones, whether panel is armed or not -- sounds simple, but amazingly, some panels don't report this information.

5. Ability to disarm *any* type of alarm (burglary, fire, etc.) through RS-232. Another one that sounds like a no-brainer, but not always possible.

6. Report *which* user armed or disarmed the system, even if done through an alarm keypad.

There are others, but that's all I can think of at the moment. Numbers 1, 2, and 3 are the hardest to find.

HAI has the most robust protocol I've seen, second would probably be Radionics/Bosch. Others I've used with pretty good results are Napco and Apex. I've heard positive reports about Caddx and GE/Interlogix (I think it's the same as Apex), although I haven't used them personally, and am "pickier" than most :-)

The worst interface/protocol I've seen is DSC.

If you are installing a quality alarms system It won't be an issue. With the higher end panels from each manufacturer you are going to get the info you need, and want, on the touch panels.

If your an ITI Dealer you'd be crazy to install a caddx system, you'll use an Advent System. If your an Ademco Dealer you'll use an Apex system rather than a Vista 10 or 20. HAI, use the OmniPro 2.

They've already footed the bill for the touch screen system. Do yourself and your customer a favor and use a highend alarm panel that will allow you to seemlessly integrate.

Robbie S

IMHO, the best security systems to use are ones that will report a status change to the control system versus a less desireable security system that must be constantly polled by the control system. The constant polling of the security system consumes CPU cycles in the control system and therefore slows the entire system down. Basically, its bad system design to have to constantly poll another system for status.

The above mentioned GE Interlogix systems are a security system that can report a status changes to the control system. Also, you can look up the compatible security systems on the Crestron web site. There are a number of systems that listed on the Crestron web site, but not all of those listed will inform the Crestron system of a status change (i.e. Ademco 250 has to be polled).