Here's my gripe: Has anyone ever thought about unionizing this industry? Let me explain: I am in the position of working for a few national vendors installing satellites and Home Theaters. We also do custom work BUT these vendors are our bread and butter. I've got 6 technicians and a few office people. And it seems like every two years or so our vendors want to pay less for the same labor. When state of the art becomes run of the mill nobody wants to pay, if you buck the system they send the work to the next guy who will work cheaper. (He'll cost them more in the long run, but they'll worry about that later)
It's my responsiblity to keep my people working. And to pay them a decent wage.
I just keep thinking that if somehow the majority of people in this industry could join an organization that represents their interests it would not only protect us from the "MAN" but would legitimize this business.
I'm so sick of hearing "So do you do this everyday?"
"No you freaking idiot Mon-Wed I'm the president of Disney"

"YES I DO THIS EVERYDAY- IT'S MY JOB!!!!!!!!"

Don't get me wrong I LOVE WHAT I DO FOR A LIVING, it just seems like we need some protection out there. I know alot of you do strictly custom work. But there has got to be a few guys out there like me.

skybird...

YES!

and you should check www.integrationpros.com, as there is a thread about it over there right now

avdude

Avdude,

I went to the site and registered. Site took my info but wouldn't accept my password when I tried to login.

I tried that web site and got an error message. I am in the same boat. Satellite installers are now expected to do more and get paid less. I was hoping that with required certification the installation rates would go up. WRONG! They went down... again. Odd how the rates drop a month before the big promotion for free three room installation. You are absolutely right if we try to buck the system they will find someone else to do it for less. Eventually they will have nothing but one man shops doing the installs and the quality, logistics, and customer satisfaction WILL cost them. I can't beleve these so called business professionals can not see that. They are hurting the people that bring their product into their customers home and have the final and most significant impact on customer satisfaction. Yes you have hit a nerve with me on this one. I spend every chance I get promoting the other areas of my business so I can dump these installs.
Jack

The problem with unionizing is that there is always some dumb bastard willing to do the job for less. I am near Mexico and you can get somebody to work his butt off for days for peanuts around here. Of course the work is crappy, but people don't seem to realize it until it's too late.

I totally agree that corporate America has the terrible mentality that they deserve everything and we deserve nothing. DirecTV is the obvious example. I honestly don't know how any ligitimate company can turn a profit installing for DirecTV and still do a decent job. They are greedy scumbags as far as I am concerned.

The entire reason that I am self employed is because I don't like working for "The Man". The best way to avoid corporate greed is to avoid situations where your pay scale is dictated by some guy working for some corporation, who gets another bonus everytime he screws you out of something. Not a single one of them has any vision (or concern) about anything beyond the next fiscal quarter and their next bonus.

Bottom line: Re-orient your business to avoid the corporations. When they start losing clients and revenue, then maybe a few of them will get the axe.

You have to get used to the idea that business changes on a continual basis. What is profitable today is gone tomorrow.

We used to have one full time technician doing VCR repairs all day long. A major repair (2-3 hours) was $137.50 plus parts. That was great for business then. How many are we doing now that you can buy a VCR at Safeway for $49? Take a guess...after 28 years of this, I can give you a long list of similar stories.

If you think what you are doing today will always be your bread and butter, you will be out on the street at some point. The only reason we are still open today is that we have begun doing other things that we didn't do before. You always have to be looking for new horizons. I emphasize that YOU HAVE TO!!

Unionizing to fix your prices is an artificial way of propping up a segment of the business that supply and demand need to be allowed to regulate. Eventually you support the union bosses and that infrastructure and the cost to the person paying the bill ceases to be cost effective for him and he'll find another way to do it without you regardless. If on the other hand they want to get really cheap and hire somebody else for less, they will always get what they pay for. If customer complaints rise, they will call you back. If the other guy works 12 hours a day because he can't make a living for cheap at 8 hours a day, you just have to lick your wounds and search for something more profitable. At some point you have to decide whether you want to have a life or compete with him and never see your wife and kids.

In the repair end of our business, manufacturers have always paid us 1/3 to 2/3 of the labor for a warranty repair compared to a similar repair out of warranty. It's gone on forever, and now the combination of that plus the disposability of products has made it nearly impossible to be profitable in service. A long time ago, the out of warranty repairs subsidized the warranty repairs, but now those are nearly gone. Result - the manufacturers now have very few servicers qualified to do their repairs at all. Customers don't get served as well. The market has caused that to happen. If they pay the folks they have left well enough, then that investment makes their customers happy repeat customers.

Our repair business is evolving into an installation business because it's the only growing segment in consumer electronics currently.

I am against fixing prices when the market should be allowed to establish what's fair and what's not.

Don't forget to communicate regularly with the folks you work for and ask them if they are happy with their work. Sell yourself and be sure to let them know how hard you work to make THEM successful.

Enough rambling on my part. Don't whine (figuratively speaking) when competition tries to take your living away - that's business - get busy and diversify or die.

=Tom

I agree, I quit selling sat. systems 2 years ago when all of the video stores in our area started teaming up with sat. companies offering free 2 or 3 room systems & a years worth of movies for free. You just have to find what is selling well & go with it for as long as you can. Consider getting into areas like wireless networking for the customers with large houses where you have an opportunity to sell products that havn't been exploited yet such as streaming audio & video. Just a thought! As long as you have guys out there who think $10 to $12 an hour is good money you'll always be fighting a losing battle for the job!

I suggest knowing your competitors.





This message was edited by SierraHT on 11/12/03 14:36.

Isnt that a cartell?! very illegal in the UK

In Canada it's called price fixing and we have a government department who investigates activities like this. It's even more stooopid putting it in print on a public forum.

Hey I am far from a cartel. I am one guy and I might do two to three installs a week. We still compete vigorously in fact most of don't get along. It's just a small town so everyone knows what eachother are doing whether you want them to know or not and that is really all it amounts to.

A cartel is an association of businesses who have an international monopoly. I am far from that. There is nothing illegal about communicating with the competition and really you should always keep your enemies (competition) close.

I don't suggest he do anything illegal though I guess it did sound that way.


This message was edited by SierraHT on 11/12/03 14:50.

What you suggest is in fact illegal in the States. Doesn't matter how big or how small your cartel is, what you suggest is price fixing. I doubt you will spend any time in jail, however. :-)

To call it "Price fixing" is incorrect. To be that there must be a recourse like loosing a product line if you dont sell for a fixed price (bose, McCantosh etc..) Just because the industry labor rate in any given area has an average is not "Fixed". Every service on earth is "Fixed" if you use your current thinking. All labor rates have to come from somewhere.


When this goes UNION, I will just say screw it and pump gas.

Unions are like religion, it all gets corrupted in time. When people cant do or figure it out for themselves they want a golden parachute! IF you cant make money in any business then dont try, do somthin else!
FLAME SUITE ON!

I agree with Unions for certain industries. We are CUSTOM. If a union was ever born for this CUSTOM industry??? Say hello to something else. Selling candy or hot dogs sounds more profitable. I am really getting depressed over alot of these threads. Can we please talk about something positive or at least techinical to further our education?? Just my 2 cents.

AVdude, Brijaws..

What's been up with IP? I know it was moving servers but I thought it would be completed by Monday.

email me..