Eric:

I do not believe the fact that one flawed concept that there was little demand for failed leads to the conclusion you are drawing. Similarly I could suggest that because standards (TCIP) made the Internet possible that my position is correct - but it would be a flawed argument :-).

I belong to CEDIA and while they have done many good things for the industry, this just seems to me and some others to be an area they have droppped the ball on. One final thing - unlike CEBUS - discrete codes are a relatively painless (no expense) and easy thing to implement and there is almost 100% support in our industry as to their usefullness. So I think the challenge to come up with a recommended minimum standard is minimal in the overall scheme of thngs.

I'll make one other argument. This isn't just a matter of making our lives as installers easier. The more "controllable" and predictable components are and therfore easier to use, the happier end users are and the more our industry grows. One more reason CEDIA should care about this issue.

This message was edited by QQQ on 10/16/03 23:56.

We don't, but figuring out what products those are is a full-time job. Just last week we we're trying to come up with 50" and 42" plasmas that were the color the wife wanted, with HDTV res, with discrete codes, and of the same brand that was available at the time and at a reasonable price point.

Not to mention, products sold by others, as in the case of the Marantz RC5000 that started this thread. The system worked great, except for the Vidikron DLP on the ceiling with no discrete anything.

I agree completely on having a CEDIA Certified Product line. If all CEDIA Members would back the idea, Manufactures would start to listen. Unfortunitely, the problem is getting worse. How many more new products are going to come out with Proprietary crap that won't play nicely in high end automation systems?!

AutomatioGuy...

you're right and you're wrong....

You're right in that there is stuff coming out faster than we can keep up, and that lots of it is proprietary...and if prontos, mx line stuff and Harmonies are involved (which is definitely the majority in this market right now) then we're screwed!

Your wrong in that it won't play nicely with "high end" automation systems...

most of these products DO play nicely with AMX, Crestron, Elan, Xplore and CorAccess...the problem is that people (sometimes the integrator or customer) have to pay big bucks to get these high end toys to play with the high end automation systems for the first time....then everyone else reaps the benefits...

Most of the big players though (Crestron, Elan, AMX and CorAccess) will write modules as fast as they can, and often on request, to support the latest gear...they are of course depending on some sort of RS-232, ir, or ability to sync, to deal with some of these issues.

Anyone ever automated a Bose RF?

avdude, CCPI I
site admin
www.integrationpros.com

In a professional situation when dealing with complete "numbnuts" the issue of leaving equipment on all the time is not a solution.
If someone could steer me straight, I was under the impression that with the indepth documentation available on the NET, that it is possible to construct discrete commands from existing IR commands.
If this is not possible I will cease my studies into the particulars of infra-red code structure and go wakeboarding instead.

marc,

I agree 100%

Unfortunately, there are some products out there that will NOT respond to discrete versions of their own toggle bit codes...

The numbers are coming down, but there are still some out there.

Most of the lower end TV's for example, still don't have discreet power commands, some will work if you re-work the codes, and some won't.

For as far into this industry as some of us are, you'd think we'd (the manufacturers) would be further along in this quest...oh well.

Have never tried wakeboarding, it sounds fun and rather stress free...

avdude
site admin
www.integrationpros.com

Mark, a response to a discrete code is built into the equipment, so it is either there or it is not and you cannot do anything about it. What happens is that some devices accept discrete codes that are not on the original remote, that is where using one code from the device you can edit it to get the discrete codes that are missing on the original remote.

You are correct. If the manufacturer had the forsight to include an RS232 port. Until the day that all equipment has in IR IN 1/8" mini-jack instead of having to add IR emitters, and all discrete commands are available IR, the equipment will only behave in the more expensive automation systems. The problem is that sales can't always sell AMX or Crestron control for smaller systems, yet we are expected to "Make It Work" with the limited control capabilities.

automationguy
CCPI II

There are ways around having to use AMX and CRESTRON touchscreens and controllers for RS-232 control of equipment from a wireless touchscreen!!!!
But you'll have to work that one out for yourselves if you have not already done so.