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This message was edited by QQQ on 08/20/03 19:15.

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This message was edited by QQQ on 08/20/03 19:15.

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This message was edited by QQQ on 08/20/03 19:15.

<<<<< Ernie,

however our new Architectural Audio by Sonance branded products will be sold to that channel.

Buzz Delano, our director of sales, is issuing a formal response to clear up this matter today. I will post it on this group.

Once again, thank you.
Petro Shimonishi
Sonance

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Question..... Will the Architectural Audio by Sonance branded products................ actually say Sonance anywhere on them?

QQQ, now you have me curious. I sure wish I was here to see those replies! LOL

JJP

Man, me to!

It was not what you might expect. It was a very long rant that we as dealers need to learn how to sell clients on our value and expertise, instead of endlessly whining about losing sales on widely distributed products. And it talked about how to do that (sell clients on our value and expertise). The statement I made is that I am about as threatened by Sonance deciding to sell to tract builders as Arnold is worried about losing to Gary Coleman.

For now, I'll leave it at that. My posts were not an endorsement OR criticism of what Sonance is doing.

Bring it on! I don't know about you guys, but I'd rather focus my time on selling my expertise and winning customers over my competitors in the Boston market than whining about this #$%@!

But if you want to whine, why not also whine about:
1. Bose selling direct to Builders
2. SpeakerCraft's sales program budget being cut after being acquired by Nortek.
3. Elan's products being sold to security guys who are members of a new buying group.
4. Crestron will probably make the same move since they're looking for a salesman for the builder arena.
5. Niles whoring out their business to retailers.

need I go on???

Let's face it -- it's a jungle out there. Whining is for the lazy and meek. We don't live in a communist society. It is not my devine right to be the exclusive custom installer for Elan or Sonance or any brand I choose to use in my region. Good god, have some confidence and focus on your business or sell out before you find yourselfs out of business.

Moondoggie Installs

I'll buy all that except for the Crestron part. I don't know how that would work for Crestron, and the blowback from their existing dealer base would be extreme.

Sonance got their start going to B&O dealers through B&O reps, and built their business with independent installers, which is why so many of us had handled the line. Now that they are a demand name, thanks to their efforts and our loyal support, they want to move into wider channels. Fine, I say, but be up front about it. In my area Sonance has been saying they're still careful with who gets their gear, but I don't see it. I'm off to other brands that I know for a fact are limited distribution.

Damn Q,

We all love great posts and you have certainly given us these in the past. I don't usually worry about what others think, I just speak (type) my mind. the relative anonimity of these forums gives you the chance to let it all hang out! Next time let us all see what you have to say... screw us if we don't like it.

I wasn't whining by the way... I could care less who joins the widely distributed product category... as I said, once they do I go bye-bye and focus my business relationships on those dealers that care. Pick the product you do the most business with... you know the one that helps you keep your shop open, your clients happy, etc. Now pretend that it has been put it in the hands of a bunch of new competitors (sic) that don't have your skill in designing, customer service and salesmanship but go after your clients with 35-40% off offers. Your clients may love you but once they see a price break... they will expect you to be there too. You can talk till your blue in the face about service, etc. but inevitably your margins will erode somewhat. Since you have a maximum that you can put out based on the number of employees, etc. as a business, that maximum MUST be at a certain margin for you to stay in business. Any erosion effects you and being a watchdog and sending a message to a dealer who has in the past helped you but now looks elsewhere doesn't necessarily make you a whiner. If you throw up your arms, say woe is me and stop your marketing efforts until you see a resolution... well then you're a whiner (probably an unemployed one too).

I get the feeling that some other markets have not seen as much influx of new dealers as mine has (while others, of course, have seen a lot more). I don't plan on going anywhere because my partner and I have 6 kids between us expecting meals, clothing, a roof, etc. I am more the businessman than the techie... I employ people who are smarter than me when it comes to this stuff. My main watch is on the bottom line and I have seen some awfully smart people get bowled over on the business end by paying no attention to that line. I believe I also mentioned (and wish to repeat) that I don't worry too much about the tract home market either. Even the high end spec home is not that big a worry. The end user is ultimately your customer and we focus 95% of our efforts towards these users. What my last post eluded to was the fact that more of these end users are being initially taken out of the market by electrical and security companies who have the only advantage of already being there. We end up taking a lot time fixing their BS systems and ultimately that is a pain in the ass. First off, we dont make as much as the sparkie who hosed them because their budget is gone by then. The thing that is really eroding, however, is their trust.

Jeff Hoover, President of CEDIA, wrote a great article about how it is our duty as representatives of this industry as a whole to not hose people and take this industry to the level of used cars. Seeing these distributed products in homes, with clients convinced that their $50.00 a pair cost speakers are really $800.00 a pair (which they unfortunately paid) high-end models, is a shame. Sonance already has a good name and the potential for abuse the other way exists too by some greedy bastard taking advantage of clients and also making our job as real integrators taht much tougher. My only real message buried within my overly long post, is that it does make sense for us all to watch the industry and call BS on someone who does this (kind of like ribbing manufacturers about putting out TOADS... seems like more of them have been listening lately). Congratulations to any of you whose business model is still successful but don't be an ostrich and stick your proverbial head in the sand.

Dear Sonance Dealer:

Sonance and the company¡¦s multiple brands of HomeTech by Sonance„¥, Architectural Audio by Sonance„· and HiFi Works by Sonance„¥, are experiencing substantial growth through successful market expansion and development of new products. Our goal is to develop brand strategies that are complimentary to the market segment for which the products are designed without adverse impact upon our existing customers.

The sanctity and profitability of Sonance for the custom installation and specialty A-V dealers is an essential element to the future of Sonance and its customers. Sonance-branded products will continue to be sold only through such dealers and specialty distributors.

Our distribution strategy for Architectural Audio by Sonance is intentionally different than that of Sonance. Architectural Audio by Sonance will be sold through multiple market segment distributors including A-V distributors, security distributors and electrical contractor distributors. Such distributors will be re-selling to dealer-installers who serve the large-scale, production home builder market.

Neither Sonance nor Architectural Audio by Sonance will be sold directly to the homebuilder, which would undermine the goals of all Sonance and Architectural Audio dealers and distributors.

Buzz Delano
Director of sales
Sonance

Yeah, but what you don't get is that the customer sees us as selling Sonance at a higher price for both parts and labor. What they don't see is that the series are much different and that WE, not electricians or alarm installers, have a much more extensive knowledge on speaker locations, what types of wire to use in different situations, and so on. Why don't you guys come out with a "Plumber Audio By Sonance" Or a "HVAC Sonance" that way they can get in on our gig too? We don't go around installing breaker boxes or HVAC units, because we know they can do it better. When it comes to speakers a lot of electricians think its nothing but "running wires". Go ahead and get into that market and in a couple of years people are going to think your product is crap because it won't be installed correctly.

I know of many companies that stopped selling Sonance a Long time ago because they were overdistributed... They've gotten this far, and I guess the truth of the matter is that the Custom installers really dont mean a whole lot when you've got national accounts.

Let Sonance go do their thing, and in 3-5 years when they've completely ruined the name, and no one is selling Virtuoso or even symphony, we can all look back on this post as say "We told ya so"

I duuno... Maybe it will all be fine, but I'd be nervous right now if I worked in Product development for Sonance......

Honestly in most my customers never ask me what brand speaker I am using for sound around the house. They are buying me not that brand and what I suggest is what they trust. Now if it sounds like crap the questions will start coming, but I would never let that happen. I would be much more concerned about this if it were lets say Denon or Onkyo or Krell!
That's the part that makes the difference overall and as far as they go I don't trust them either! As fast as they can talk out the other side of their lying MFGs mouth I can switch gears and replace them!

Question: what is the difference between Niles and Sonance?

Nothing!!!