Thank you, Barry, Mikey, t and PHS!

I thought all of you -- or I -- were NUTS when I read that a ccf, even with familiar equipment, can be done in anything like three hours.

I find that six hours is about average for a single-zone system with equipment I am familiar with. This does not include DSS individual channel logos/macros.

Maybe we should back up some and describe what we are expecting "programmed" to be --

1.A home page with macros. If the equipment allows it, each source macro turns on all equipment appropriate to that source and then jumps to the relevant screen for the most common operation of that source; a SYSTEM OFF macro on the home page shuts down the system. Selecting an audio source turns off the video or leaves it on, or the client has a TV OFF button on the audio component page so they can choose to turn off the TV if they want to (this originated with a TV director who wanted to listen to CDs while looking at his cinematography).

We have been trying for years to come up with a cookie-cutter system, and it just does not exist. Something always changes, so old ccfs cannot just be lifted and used.

Price? We used to charge $75 per hour for the TS-1000 and 2000. I told the clients, who were looking in despair at six remotes, that I had the exact solution to their problem, but they had to get ready to spend $1000 to do it. That bit of reality always made them pause, but then they were READY when they said "let's do it." Now we have a young guy who has agreed to do single-zone Marantz 5200 programming for a retail of $400, and this better remote still costs them just under $1000 programmed.

Just out of interest,
do any of you guys produce any sort of instructions for the customer when programming prontos.

Also what do you find to be the best way of testing the remote when on site.

Personally I produce a basic flowchart showing all the commands then tick off each one as it is tested.

Guess it stops me going round in circles, also very useful if one of your colleagues is testing the remote on-site.

Well I thought it was about time I would tell you how much we charge, even though no one here will believe it. The average time it takes me to program a remote it around 2 hours. The fastest I've done was a TSU2000 in a simple theater in 37 minutes (I mean simple). We program both RC5200's and RC9200's, we used to do TSU2000 but the TSU3000 is unaccaptable to us so we only do the Marantz now. Now is the fun part, we charge $499 for a RC5200 fully programed and $1,295 for a RC9200 programed. This includes every thing that Ernie Bornn-Gilman described in his post and more. I do channel icons for every DSS and Dish network channel including a page of the clients favorites. I have tried to get the price raised but this is where we stay firm. Let the "I don't believe it's start" :)

I don't believe it ;0)

Program way number 1

If I have xxx number of projects to draw from. Open and merge 5 CCF. Delete (if I want), the unused files. Exactly how log does that take me? Now I take a home page that needs source buttons and alias them. Exactly how long does that take? Adjust timing in macros as needed. Done.


Program way number 2

Take CCF I did two days ago with the exact same equipment (different TV or different brand plasma) replaced/redirect the alias to a merged device. Adjust macros as needed and exactly how long does that take.

Both may or may not incorporate favorites for satellite. The radio page with preset 01 presses buttons on another page so....

Short cuts are key. I may spend a few minutes picking out parts CCFs but I know they have been tried and tested.

Rant off.

Dave





This message was edited by DavidatAVX on 06/09/03 23:27.

Programming a Pronto to a specific client isnt the same as programming for your own installs. I use a blank template of most all possible devices/components and merge in specific disretes/ir codes and alias to those hidden pages. If it's a system I install with my supplied eqipment, programmimg is generally under 3 hours. Add 20-30 minutes for each device i need to learn codes. Add 10-30 minutes for each client supplied device i need to figure out A) how it works then, B) Learn/Research the IR Codes. As far as price, I'd say $100-$125 per hour plus a fixed price for the Pronto is very reasonable.

The pronto is a Powerful device which should be charged well for. A typical tSU200 with all custom pages and macros should easily cost over $1000. A good library of icons and pages is very important.
Right now the TSU2000 is worth a small fortune because it is a discontinued item and the TSU3000 still has many issues that need to be workrd out to get them stabilized in the field.

Have you tried one out after the new software and firmware updates this month?

CJ

Take a look at the ProntoNG forum.

I just bought a TS3000 for personal use, last Friday. Started programming it, ran across the forums here, and upgraded the editor and firmware. So I don't have a lot of experience with the previous version.

My impression of the latest revision, based on my experience and the talk in the NG forum is that it's added some nice features like hidden device pages, but it's also introduced some flakiness in basic functions like IR learn and playback, and intermittent connectitivity problems with the PC.

It's still pretty much a work in progress as far as I can see.

For a hobbyist, it's not so much of a problem, just some frustrations. For a pro...

I guess I better raise my rates, I have been doing the 9200 for 150.00 and the 3200 for 100.00 and it takes every bit of 5-6 hours even using my custom template that took me several weeks to develope. I now have a customized page for every kind of device and so when I go to a job I just have to modify it for the brand of each device and then learn codes. I spend atleast an hour just teaching the owner how to use it.

We provide a 2-3 page basic manual explaining the lay-out of the remote including hard buttons, the ways that pages work, and the basics of the program. We provide these both as printed instructions, and as a PDF file on the disc that we provide the program on. Every remote is different, but we have a large library of Pronto screenshots/bitmaps. We use the customers' screenshots in every manual. I can e-mail one to you if you would like to see the way we do them. The average one takes about an hour to do. The price for the manual is in addition to the programming and is budgeted in the total just like any other item we sell. Just like the Pronto, when you do a lot of them, you learn to cut, paste, and keep a stock template on hand. The response from everyone that we have done them for is overwhelmingly positive.

Wow, this thread has gone all over the board.

The short answer to the original question is, $95 per hour. I will spend as much time or as little time as someone wants. I've done custom graphics layouts (a golf theme for example) that took 10 hours and a multi-area operated 3 zone Elan Z system w/local video equipment control in each zone at about 8 hours. Any control system is only as good as the programmer doing it.

I only quote fixed prices when all the gear involved with the programming is gear I sold them (meaning I both understand the characteristics of the equipment and have templates/codes already in ready-to-use form).
I will quote a standard theater/entertainment system with all gear from us as $285 for TSU-2000/3000, $380 TSU-6000, $380 Elan Via. This includes basic macro automation of functions but with NO CHANNEL LOGO/BUTTONS. I hate this and never recommend this (I have enough work doing new systems I don't need to make money reprograming button macros because Dish Net, DirecTV or Cable decide to renumber their channels).