A former customer of mine has asked me to develop a custom ccf for his pronto pro, most all the graphics are custom - based on his company - 50/50 on the ir codes, some from here and some from Kenwood Rep. If you guys would mine telling me what you have charged in the past for all custom ccf.

Thanks Hunter

$100.00 per hour

$125.00 per hour. Average program usually take's 2.5 hours.
Zinon

New IR codes are not a big deal, but I'd probably end up charging 3-5k for a totally custom .ccf with all new graphics. And No, I'm not kidding, and No, I don't really want to do it, even if I do get paid.

It's just not cost-effective and it's a poor use of our time, unless we have *nothing* else to do.

The only way we can possibly make any lower-end touchpanel remotely affordable is to re-use our stock template and graphics. I also think we can actually get a better end result by being this repetitive.

I'm more than happy to use a customer's image as the Splash/Startup screen with their name on the page. That's easy, and it's usually enough to feel "custom" to the client without re-inventing our wheel.

Just an opinion!

Barry

Barry

If your clients pays that much for a custom CCF file then IMO they are being shown the wrong product. The Pronto series in any flavor/brand is only for a certain price point. Spending that much money should be redirected to a Crestron or AMX system that is much more powerful. All of this is IMO. I usually program a full CCF in about 1/2 to 3 hours depending on equipment. That is with "stock" CCFs that have been used over and over. Clients understand that.

Some clients want custom panels but from I have seen those have the money to invest in a better designed system with more solid control system and in turn have a Crestron system from us.

I agree about the cost effective issues with CCFs, that's why I would never buy and Yugo and invest 8 times its value in labor adding features. Maybe for some but not my clients.

Dave

Dave-


Total agreement… “The only way we can possibly make any lower-end touchpanel remotely affordable is to re-use our stock template and graphics.” I was talking about the whole Pronto/Marantz family here.


Also agreed… For the priced I quoted, you’re starting to get near Crestron ST/STX1700C or AMX Viewpoint territory. Even with these panels I’ll still argue against a totally custom design for the same reasons I’ve listed above. There are exceptions, but… “It's just not cost-effective and it's a poor use of our time, unless we have *nothing* else to do. I'm more than happy to use a customer's image as the Splash/Startup screen with their name on the page. That's easy, and it's usually enough to feel "custom" to the client without re-inventing our wheel.”


Hate to be monotonous, but more agreement here… I like your Yugo analogy. I would not recommend this option to a client, and that’s why I wrote “No, I don't really want to do it, even if I do get paid.” Just a bad idea in general IMHO.

BTW - just a personal theory, but I think the whole “custom” label in this industry may be a little misleading. I like to think that EVERY panel we do IS custom. They are all custom programmed for each client’s specific system, but I think the repetitive nature of using a solid template is the more reliable & cost-effective programming process.

Barry

I peeped in this thread because of my frustration in proramming my TSU2000. I was trying to get an idea what I might expect to pay if I just took it to someone and had it programmed for me. (i.e., Ovation, etc) After reading the posts, Iim wondering about my choice in the product. Is the Pronto considered a low end product?

Two reasons for asking. I am looking for a remote for my PERSONAL use, and also one that I can confortably offer to my customers, and feel confortable knowing that I can program the device without an extensive computer backround. I am a satellite retailer/installer, and do some HDTV, high end units. Nothing in the EXTREME high end units, say between $10,000 to $20,000 in home theatre equipment. I personally roughl;y a $15,000 system. Point is, I want a remote that will do everything, but the $300 to $500 ballpark is probably my price point right now.

What do the other "more stable" units that were mentioned do that the Pronto series do not?

Anyway, sorry for the slightly off topic reply, but any help would be appreciated.

idodishez

Imagination is your limitation with Crestron.

[Link: crestron.com]

This is one place to start. Don't expect anything in the $300 to $600 range.

Dave




This message was edited by DavidatAVX on 05/19/03 00:20.

Not off-topic at all.

Is the TSU-2000 a low-end product? If you're comparing it to a generic universal $19.95 remote from Toys-R-Us, it's so high-end you're insane to try and sell it, and I have some clients who tell me exactly that.

If your point of reference is a Crestron or AMX control system, then yes, the whole Pronto/RC series is lower-end. That's a whole different ballpark.

Having said that, we still sell a lot of RC-9200's, and it's been priceless in that price range. We used to sell bunches of TSU-2000's till the color models came out. They are still great remotes.

Barry

like they said above, it depends on the starting point, I also don't think they mean lower end as cheep, no good

I got into the Pronto in 99 when my boss came up to me looking for a solution for our videoconference rooms. AMX and crestron were too much money, and were not acceptable solutions for most of our plants ($$ is always a big issue) and the normal remotes just made a system that was too complicated for most users (projector, TV, Scan converter, VCR, VC codec, second camera, doc cam....), lucked out on this site and the Pronto. Fits the bill perfectly and we can make changes on the fly in minutes (so when we add a new VC site we can add it in the directory on the remote)

I think that one with custom graphics will take a signigicantly more time than 2.5 hours.

CJ

We can't even do this with our *stock* template in 2.5 hours:

1. Drive to our average site.
2. Say Hello, unpack the laptop and bootup.
3. Program.
4. Test actual operation.
5. Re-Test actual operation.
6. Test some more.
7. Give on-site warm bodies some quality time.
8. Shutdown & repack, and say Goodbye.
9. Drive back to the shop.

This doesn't allow much leeway for "unfamiliar" equipment. Don't even ask how much photoshop time for new graphics.

I'm feeling very un-productive here!

Barry

A complete custom job can't be done in only 2.5 hours - not even just computer time. If you can do that, then you either possess God-like qualities or you are offering a configuration that is less than a good one. Maybe you should clarify what exactly you do in 2.5 hours before leading us to believe something that most likely isn't true about you.

As to the original question, prices vary widely. What is custom to you may or may not be custom to someone else. What is adequite to you may or may not be adequite to someone else. For me, I charge approx. $50 per device and offer a choice of pre-existing graphic styles. I then customize the layout of the chosen graphics. When I am hired by a retailer, the cost to the customer is more, and I make less. As to total cost, well, that depends on hours spent. I always spend more than an hour per device, but I usually only quote a price based on 1/hr per device. I try to give more than what is expected, and I am also a little slow due to being somewhat anal. I don't make the customer pay for that. I only do this part-time as well, so I am just another "varying" example that probably doesn't help you much. Anyway, hope it helps some.

Right. My sales staff is always fighting with me about this.
"Look, just give me a time so I can bill the customer"
Ok, 1 Hour per device, 2 hours for devices not purchased from us, 3 hours for devices not purchased from us, with no original remote. Extra 4 hours for first time of new series (3200, 5200, 9200).
Ok, that comes out to 16 hours * $95 = 1600 + remote,so $2000 - $2500 for a remote that will work flawlessly (if not the first press, always the second)
It is a labor of love.
I keep thinking ... hey I'll make it up on the next one. But they keep changing the models, so I keep having to start over.
...
...
My point is if it can be done in 3 hours ... it must be the same thing you get when DirecTV installs 2 rooms of satellite for FREE. (A usually 8 hour process for a truly professional installation)

We price a basic program together with the price of the Pronto. TSU-3000 = $650.00 programmed, TSU-6000 = $1250.00 programmed. We can do an average remote(one TV, one VCR, one DVD, one CD, one sat or cable box, and one radio/pre-amp) in about 4-6 hours. The record is 3 hours start to finish using all known equipment and a pre-written layout. The longest has been 7 hours on day one and 1 1/2 hours on a second trip(thank you Phillips for the bugs in the 3000). Not the way everyone else does it, but it works for us. Systems bigger than this(scaler, projector, multi-zone, more than one page of "favorites") and we add-on accordingly. Every job is different so we bid every job as such. The base price gives us something to put in proposals that we know we can make money on and still have time to do correctly. The average system owner wants the control, the ease of use, but could care less about custom graphics. Our showroom TSU-6000,on the other hand, has all custom graphics and bitmaps and has a price tag of $3500.00 should a customer want that level of customization.