I have recently discovered that the INCA brand projector & TV lift products are not UL approved. This company seems to be a major player in this type of product, and the product seems to be built to incredibly high mechanical specifications.
Anyone know the ramifications of installing unlisted equipment in residential applications?
I have also discovered that the drive motors for these products have no "safety reverse" mechanism for automatically stopping or reversing if something (like the client's fingers) are in the way of the closure panel of the lift.
An LCD lift I recently installed from them included an external connector box which had a male AC plug & 3 multipin connectors for controllers. One of the multipin connectors has MALE pins (touchable with fingers) that are live with 120VAC when the unit is plugged in! There are no warnings about this on the box or in the instruction manual for the lift.
I'm notably concerned. Is my concern justified?
Anyone?

You may be subject to liability if you install these lifts, anything operated by electricity must be UL or CSA or equivalent, then they assume some of the liability if there is an accident, or at least you can claim that you followed the law because they had approved it.

I would not touch one with those electrical/manufacturing faults.

Agreed, especially the live male contacts. I've seen people make generator cords with double-male ends, which are equally dangerous. Yikes!

Larry
www.fineelectricco.com

Typically, projector lifts and projectors ARE NOT UL approved. However, the parts (motor, power supply etc) are UL approved. I had an installation in San Francisco years ago where the electrical inspector demanded UL approval of the lift and the Projector. I had to hire Underwriters Laboratories to send an engineer to travel to San Francisco and write a report. The report did not give UL approval but indicated that since the parts were UL approved the installation was probably safe. This cost $2500 in 1992 dollars. The building inspector accepted this report in lieu of actual UL approval.

Since then I've seen hundreds of projectors and lifts installed, none UL approved (only Sony projectors are UL approved as far as I know) without comment by electrical inspectors. Luck of the draw!

Best Regards,

-Eric

Eric Johnson
www.hometheaterpro.com
1-800-247-7001

I would add to this; that typically electically operated screens are not UL approved either. The manufacturer's claim that since the motor and relay are UL approved, they do not need to submit product for approval.

Thanks everyone. I have checked around, and it seems as though nobody offers UL approved lifts. I guess we just do our best install and hope nothing goes wrong. I am kind of suprised that some unsavory installer hasn't given up a finger or two at the direction of an attorney by now on a get-rich-quick scheme. Good thing for the lift manufacturers that we are such an honest bunch of individuals.

I sent the first post off to Inca the day it was posted and have not received a reply.

Hmmm.

So many problems with stinca, it's hard to know where to start.

Here's one: Installed their marine-grade lift and it rusted!!!! within 2 months and the boat was in dry dock.

Here's another: Try contacting them.

I contacted them first, they have no intention of getting their lifts approved by Underwriters Laboratories. Their "tech support" fellow did not see a problem with the male AC pins. "Just don't touch them..."
I paid by check prior to shipment, lesson learned.

INCA is the worst design out there .....
I too got screwed by INCA, I wish I read these posts prior to buying their ceiling lift. Here is a few of the major problems I found.

1. Very POOR build quality. Weldments are not strait.
2. Instructions for mounting unit don't work. (Verified by Roger at Inca)I don't think they have ever integrated their Lifts into anything, They don't demo any at there facility
3. Control is crap. Had to be modified.
4. In-adequate mount for Plasma.
5. Misaligned drop door
6. Very Loud Motor/Gears & slower than told before the purchase.
7. When the finished lift is hung, there is no means to cover it with drywall. Further, the hinge mechanism must maintain holes in the ceiling/drywall to work. Its the worst design flaw I've ever seen. (These guys *Inca* are junk yard engineers.
8. Customer service.... Well let me tell you, there is none. I questioned some of the above and their reply was " your the only with this problem” They
(Roger) faxed back a reply saying "We have helped
you enough, your on your own"

Suffice to say don't give these guys any leeway. Ask a lot of questions before giving your hard earned money to these fools. Their product will cost you a great deal more by the time it’s modified by you at your own cost. I'm going with Auton Lifts.

Danny

It really all comes down to what it costs manufacturers to submit new equipment to UL testing for approval. The time alone can push back release dates of certain products, and God forbid UL find something wrong with the design and they have to re-submit.

They do have that loophole as long as the individual parts being approved.

Right now we are dealing with a lift that nearly took off a customers' arm. No safety mechanism, whatsoever, and the emergency release switch is actually BEHIND a flush mounted panel, held with four cabinet latches! It was difficult to get to with a flat head screw driver, let alone with a hand in a panic situation.

I'm seeing more and more manufacturers, especially smaller ones, forgo the UL approval process. This is a situation brought on by UL themselves.
First, understand that UL is not a government agency, and there is no law that requires any product to be UL approved. I'm not sure what the NEC has to say about that, but the NEC rules are not U.S. laws either.
UL is very inconsistant. They have offices over in asia where you can get away with alot. There are also alot of products coming into this coutry that have a bogus logo.
Here in the U.S., UL test labs are run pretty inefficiently. It is like dealing with the post office. Some of those folks work at one speed - slow.
Another problem is their rules can be very ambiguous, and subject to alot of interpretation. That's why some manufacturers feel that as long as the components are approved, they are OK. It's probably what thier local UL lab told them.
Other offices are more strict, and won't consider anything OK unless you've paid them a few thousand, and they issue you a UL number.
There are also alternatives, TUV, CE, CSA that are perfectly acceptable to most.
Many years ago, UL used to buy the manufacturer some level of protection on product liability, but these days, anyone can get sued for anything. The best bet is to design something that is safe, use your own brain and don't do things like exposed AC connectors, and have good insurance.