Hi,
I currently live in Saudi Arabia.

I ordered a PCS SmartSwitch to try X10, my problem is I know nothing about electricity and I was not able to hookup the SmartSwitch to replace my old switch.

I opened my old switch, and there is only two wires connected to the switch there, both the same color. is it possible to connect the SmartSwitch with those wires.

note: my electricity is 110V and I successfully instaled and operated the Lamp Module.

thanks guys

If there are only two wires in the box then no, the PCS switch requires a netrual.

If there are other wires in the box, but only two are hooked to the old swtich, then some of those other wires should be the nuetrals and you'll be fine.

The only question is what color coding is used over there? Tell us about all of the wires in the box.

well, there are no other wires there!

only two wires in the box and both are green, I guess they dont care which is which here!, I tried reversing the wiring in the old switch and it did not matter, the switch worked the same!!!

could I add a neuteral wire?

Hi Larry,

I see you are still helping people on the PCS issues.

Can you recommend equally reliable with "direct to light level" eg:(A5 to 65% ect..),and it does not need to support scenes. but... it must work with only 2 wires in the switch box.

I thought PCS was introducing a switch which required only 2 wires?

THANKS

rballa,

A regular switch will work just fine with only two wires. One of those wires is hot and the other continues on to the light. The other side of the light is then hooked to nuetral. Only the cheaper X10 switches will work in that situation, not the more advanced switches with the advanced features. To use the more sophisticated switches you would need to get a nuetral to that box.

Joec,

I don't know of any switch which offers that ability without also requiring a nuetral. I would look for a way to get a nuetral to the box.

Are you guys sure your box is not ground ?

Kab, it's illegal and a bad idea to use ground as a neutral. Even though they're connected together at the main disconnect, ground (the grounding conductor) and neutral (the grounded conductor) are required to be separate beyond the first disconnect or overcurrent device.

Larry
www.fineelectricco.com

No I think you misunderstood me. When they say their box only has only 2 wires . Im not saying use it as the neutral . lol
All 110 I have seen here is 3 wire ,White=neutral , Black=hot & Green=ground. It's a no brainer.

This message was edited by kabster on 06/18/02 01:51.43.

"Kab, it's illegal and a bad idea to use ground as a neutral. Even though they're connected together at the main disconnect, ground (the grounding conductor) and neutral (the grounded conductor) are required to be separate beyond the first disconnect or overcurrent device."
I love this guy..who knows whats legal in Saudi Arabia? Also if you can find a ground use it, it obviously is not used for return current for the light, but just for trickle reference current for the electronics of the PCS switch to operate. I got into this same arguement a year ago on this forum.

Larry is a real electrician, what else can he say. There are right ways and wrong ways to do anything and advising someone to do it against national codes, especially if you are a licensed electrician could cost you your license and your finances. Jazzman is right using the bare ground works fine, but it can cause a safety problem in a very rare circumstance. You really can’t expect anybody in this business to tell you to do it that way though.

Bill
www.homeautomationnet.com

Thanks, Bill. I've seen other electricians use anything to pick up a neutral for a real load, whether it's a neutral from another circuit, a grounding wire, even a water pipe! I've also seen more than one situation where someone tied what should be a ground to a neutral, just to pass inspection.

Please understand, Jazz, that neither of us know what's legal elsewhere, and I know that the neutral current of X-10 switches is both miniscule and momentary, but it's still preferable to use a definite neutral over a questionable ground.

If there are "only two wires" in the box, and no ground (bare or green) was mentioned, then it could be dangerous to assume that even a metal box is solidly grounded. You've never seen new Romex (with ground) added to a circuit wired with old Romex (no ground) or even knob-and-tube wiring (definitly no ground)?

Unless the electrician (or worse, uneducated home-owner, relative, or neighbor) bothered to find a ground for the new wiring, it's easy and dangerous to assume that an bare wire is really grounded at all. A ground fault at one new receptacle, fixture, or other outlet can render another new one lethally hot!

Want to berate me for erring on the side of caution, or making suggestions that do likewise, that's okay. I'm a big boy; I can take it. I'd rather have that than have to explain to a parent how their child was electrocuted due to someone's laziness or false assumptions.

Your post points out the difference between professionals and amateurs. Like it says on my website:
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional, wait until you hire an amateur!" -- Red Adair

Recognize the name? He's the guy who puts out oil well fires. I'm sure he's still in business (or for that matter, still alive) because he follows the rules.

Larry
www.fineelectricco.com

I plugged my camper in a couple of years ago and got a "zing" every time I touched my door knob. I dug out my meter and stuck one probe into the earth by the door and measured 120 volts to my door knob! The electrician wired in a new cabin upstream and reversed the hot and ground for the rest of the sites down the line. I realize the danger in using undesignated conductors for return current, and I guess in this case a lightning strike could cause a short across the PCS electronic component, but the breaker would flip right away. The danger in using a ground wire for a neutral is large return currents/potentials-to-ground being present on appliance chassis and the like which are along the path back to the ground bar, which would not be the case in this instance. I was just trying to get away from the "I went to the top of the mountain and saw God (NECC) and hence forward these rules are now burned in stone" type of responses. It it beneficial when learning the electrical code to take in some theory of why these rules are in place.

Jazz, I've been into electronics since I was a kid. I know more electrical theory than most electricians. I know why the rules are as they are.

The danger in return currents on grounding conductors is compounded when there is resistance or an open in the grounding path. Usually, the only time the potential on a grounded surface leaves 0 volts to earth is during a ground fault, which causes the impedances in the ground path to develop voltage drops.

The reason that grounded and grounding conductors are separate past the first disconnect is so the neutral conductor is insulated in case of the aforementioned ground fault, especially "bolted faults" (especially low-resistance, high-current faults).

Even in "this case", there could be a full 120 volts to earth with a PCS switch connected to a non-grounded metallic box, which is what I meant by making assumptions. One needs to test for ground using something that requires a fairly high current.

Voltmeters with high-impedance inputs can register a voltage between two points due to induced currents, so the only way to test for a solid ground is with a (relatively) high-current meter, such as the solenoid-type tester I use.

There are NEC rules that I sometimes think are excessive or needless, but one doesn't rules by intentionally breaking them. That only creates potential (pardon the pun) dangers and legal hassles.

Contractors are required to be licensed for many reasons, but the main one is because of the possibility of danger to the public caused by improper workmanship. Sure, there are bureaucratic and financial benefits to the governing bodies, but there are also real safety issues that need rules and regulations for public safety to be assured.

I understand the NEC, and I follow it. It's called being responsible.

Larry
www.fineelectricco.com

Well I travel from market to market and.............no just kidding. I just wanted to give this poor guy (probably a rich guy) in Saudi Arabia a break. He's got this hundred dollar light switch and can't party with it.

I can dig it. I don't take things personally, anyway.

Larry
www.fineelectricco.com