Just out of curiosity, why did i spend all that time in a class room, or online, taking classes on how to program these remotes? I mean if my client is more capable programming this remote then I am, any ideas on a new profession? Because i am damn sure my boss wont pay me any more....

You actually want to do this? Your friends walk up and look at your remote control for a special message when they come over for a dinner party?

I'm a busy executive, and I don't have the time

So your a busy executive and you have the time to do this? You must be doing a fantastic job over there at your company. I have plenty of truly busy executive customers and they are very thankful that we can help them make things easier for them.

ditto on that one....just finished 4 T4's for one customer. He was soooo glad that I am there this week. Its beginning to look a lot like Christmas..............


anyone who does not understand the why's of RTI and other control companies.........why they don't want their well designed product in the inexperienced hands of the DIY crowd....................can just sit down.

Cause your whinning here..........ain't doin you no good!

Peace and Love.........to all....................over and out!

As a professionally Certified ACE installer/designer/programmer for AMX control systems i have to say that i whole heartedly agree here.. if you want the software to be open to the general public then you MUST stick to a product line within those relms.. Unfortunatley for you RTI is not on that list, is it wrong.. of course not, its the way they decided to conduct business in order to preserve thier business ethics as well as thier products.

vitoasaro.

Looks like he's come here, flamed about something that upset him, and he's gone. It's been at least three weeks and he has only posted three times.

I'll try to remember how obvious it was that he didn't get it, the next time that I feel so upset about an issue that I want to write the way he did. I've done it, and it hasn't made any difference, and there's probably been someone out there saying to himself "too bad...he just doesn't get it."

Add this to the FAQ on "Why RTI software is not available to non-dealers."

Vito, you sound like an overpaid executive and not very busy, if you had the time to change your own water heater. I wonder just what kind of mark-up your company charges for it's services. I'm sure it's over priced. One other thing, learn what price gouging really means before you accuse your plumber or programmer of it.
You are right about the price fixing being illegal, but again, your context here is wrong and mislead. As a dealer of RTI, I can sell the products at any price I want, However, if I sell it online or drop the price below MSRP, I will lose my abilitly to buy and sell RTI, so that would just be a dumb move on my part, besides violating the agreement I have with them and their distributor. If I don't like their terms, I don't have to carry their products. There is nothing illegal about that. Just ask Bose, they drop dealers all the time for selling on-line or cutting their prices. RTI is a luxury product, and not even the only one of it's kind out there, so if you don't like the price and terms of the product, don't buy it.

I was just imagining him telling us that he cleans his own car, changes his own oil, changes the brake pads (and jacks up the car every few months to inspect them), picks his own lettuce, slaughters his own pig...

More to the point, what he describes is not price fixing.

Rats. He dropped a couple of posts on us and then ran away. Too bad we don't get to hear him go on about how Bose is so wonderful. I bet he would.

WOW!!! All that time in classes learning to set up a remote control.

I understand everyone does what they can to earn an honest living. Wether you are an executive, or remote control installer.

I have an RTi T2+ and a Harmony 1000. Neither of them need ANY extensive training unless you have some type of learning disability. Grant it, I dont have the software to program either myself. But, when my installer came out to install the Harmony I watched everything he did once and was able to jump on his computer and redo everything myself, without any help from him. Even he admitted how simple it was. The same went for the RTi. BTW, I don't use the RTi anymore and use it as a paper weight now.

Grant it, some customers don't want to mess with the whole thing because it may seem time consuming or complicated. Thats great. But there are many people such as myself who don't make a lot of money and spend some of what we make on sweet electronics such as universal remotes. People such as myself who have a little comprehension of how these things work and don't want to have to hassle getting someone out to their house everytime there needs to be an adjustment to their remote. Not everyone likes being catered to.

I know this will never be a solution but maybe if the customer has the option to pay extra for software this may also help compensate for the fact the installer will not be doing house calls to make extra money. Just an idea though.

Also, It seems to me that everytime someone brings up a discussion regarding these issues, dealers/installers never have anything positive to say regarding the topic. As it seems to me, you all will always have job security so long as this software isn't made available to the general public.

|| WOW!!! All that time in classes learning to set up a remote

First of all, you have no idea what is going on with these classes. These classes do not "teach you how to set up a remote control". They are a way to create control systems to meet the demands of the market, troubleshooting, company lines, product information, new features, etc.


What do you do if you don't mind me asking? What makes you think we care if you "understand"?



Okay pal, the harmony is garbage. You actually hired an installer to set up a harmony? I will give you the T2+ , but the Harmony?



Wow, you must have a really elaborate system.


Was that suposed to be a crack at RTI? If your so down on the company why are you here with your comments that sound like someone who might be a little disgruntled - perhaps things got a little too complicated for you and you couldnt get any new versions of software?



So buy a Harmony. That is what they are there for - what's the problem?

I knew it - same old story. Poor little Boss Hoss is upset he can't get any software because the truth is he is either cheap as a whistle or he has a lousy installer (probably because he is cheap, so refer to point #1)


Are you serious? Do you think that if RTI opened it's doors tomorrow we would be out of a job? You must be kidding. I make a great amount of income from URC and Pronto on it's own and that software is as free as anything. You have no idea what your talking about, your just angry and upset that you can't have the software. That's what pisses me off most about these posts. Because nobody admits they are too cheap to hire an installer or that they are angry because they can't get software.

By the way, I hope your RTI remote is making an excellent paper-weight.

You are correct in that the software is just a glorified GUI allowing you to enable the remote... learn to use it just like any other... it is not like programming code.

Outside of that, you have made the most ridiculous, cocky, assinine and uninformed assumptions about programming control systems that I have seen in a while here.

First off, learning the software is but a small part of the process. The total system design configuration, complete understanding of the components to be controlled, knowledge and experience with control protocols, good graphic design skills and understanding of effective GUI practices are all part of the process. Sure, you may be able to get the remote to turn on your TV and control your cable box via direct IR but you would require quite a bit of time to come up to speed with programming with a processor utilizing RS232, contact closures, automated sequence macros, etc.. to optimize the performance and benefits found in a professional system. If you were to see a T2+, T2C, T3, K3, K4, T4, etc... that has been expertly programmed to control a feature rich system (one that you may find complex) you may decide that your RTI remote is wasting time as a paper weight.

I am really against pros here on RC railing DIY or newbie posters about their ignorance because it makes us all look like greedy pricks to casual observers in this public forum but from time to time people (like you) have to be called out for their ignorance.

I am sure that I could get some basic concepts about what you do for a living and tell everyone that "I could do that"... but I do not... it would be a load of crap. Do this for a living... do it well... then come back and tell us how simple it is.

This is what gets my britches in a stitch... Programming a UNIVERSAL remote to operate a few basic components via direct IR is not the same thing a designing and programming an intuitive control system for an installed system. If you want to do it yourself then do it yourself. Don't act like your ability to do it yourself means that you are ready for prime time and that you know enough to bust the balls of someone doing it professionally. You may be someone who could do this professionally but you would have much to learn about many things that you have no idea about at this juncture.

Apples and oranges my friend.

Why are the DIY guys so angry they can't get the software? There are other products out there designed for the DIY crowd. Harmony is one of them...

I am a musician and there is the old joke...

How many drummers does it take to screw in a light bulb?

One.

...and a dozen other standing around saying, "I could do that".

I am one of the first to say that some of these industry debates are being treated like they are in a vacuum when they are not. The comments of ignorant newcomers and reactionary pros alike cause some pretty stupid exchanges that are not worth the reading but can damage the perceptions of observers... we on the pro side should realize this. The newcomers should also realize that this is a community that has many ongoing discussions that have extreme value to the overall community for Pros, enthusiasts, hobbyists, DIYers and the curious. First time (or near first time) posters should spend a bit of time reading up on subjects or asking questions before they jump in like they actually know what the scope of the discussion is. I see it over and over again... familiarity by end users with basic consumer electronics is somehow equated to knowlege of more advanced electronic installed systems because of the crossover of some components.

Hey, a hobbist can be very capable of hooking up gear or putting together a system but doing it for a living... for other people... where there is a professional level of expectation... with overhead... with professional gear not on the open market for good reasons... apples and oranges.

However questionable the responses may be from an industry pro to fresh posters on these subjects... how can you blame them? It starts to get annoying.

BossHoss should test himself. Without any further study, he should take the remotes he's got and explain to someone, who doesn't know his system, just how to operate it. This should be done without going back and saying "there's a better way to say that," thus having taught the wrong thing to his "client." I do this all the time, even with remote control systems in place. This explanation, like mine, should be done in such an orderly manner that system instructions WITH NO STEPS MISSING OR ASSUMED can be written directly from it.

It's really hard to comprehend all that we say about how complicated these systems are until you have them put together and you try to explain how to work them. At that point, if the person is very perceptive, they will realize that a whole lot had to be learned, figured out, and organized, just to get to where clear orderly instructions could be given.



Gee, Jimmy, your member status should be changed from Regular Member to Pissed Off Member!

Ya know, he could always sell it on ebay.