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Questionable antenna
This thread has 13 replies. Displaying all posts.
Post 1 made on Wednesday January 9, 2013 at 15:03
wogster
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Just moved into a rental house, there is an old antenna on the garage roof, do antennas lose power as they age? 

Also, I am in Wiarton, ON on top of the Escarpement, the Antenna faces East West, and I think it should be more North-South, with most signals coming out of Kitchener and London, should the wide end face south or the narrow end. 
Post 2 made on Thursday January 10, 2013 at 17:03
Nueatit
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In all, if not most, the narrow end of a VHF antenna points in the direction of the desired TV channels.

Old antennae can get oxidated, have broken or mis-bent elements, this is a visiable check.

Very old antennae had a 300 ohm twin lead cable, todays antennas use the 75 ohm co-axial cable.

More info would help us better
OP | Post 3 made on Thursday January 10, 2013 at 18:54
wogster
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No twin lead, there is a coax that comes from the antenna, so it's not THAT old, there is one very long bar that is broken, this should be the lowest stations, and the lowest channel (ch 2) is less then 15 miles away, at 110kw, it should come in on a paperclip.  The next one is a now digital Global repeater which is 21 miles away (Azimuth of 161 degrees), third is an A channel repeater (Azimuth of 184 degrees), which is 44 miles away, and it comes in, but without sound.  I figure if I can point the antenna at about 175 degrees, they should all come in clear as a bell.  I have a couple of other things I might try, I think I have 50' of RG6 here somewhere.....  I wonder though, if as usual when Global went digital, they didn't do something stupid, like cut power from 44kw to 4.4kw.....
Post 4 made on Friday January 11, 2013 at 08:42
wilspin
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It may work but a modern one will work better
Post 5 made on Friday January 11, 2013 at 09:51
Nueatit
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Wogster

You are right, the longest element is for the lower VHF band, chan 2 to 6, most of these should have been switched to higher freq. to allow for other services, however, the funny issue is "A" channel repeater with no sound, if you get solid video there has to be sound, even in analog rf signal, something else is amiss. Most VHF/UHF yagi have a beamwidth from 40 to 20 degrees depending on freq., the higher the narrower. Pointing at 175 degrees is ideal for you and should work. If one of the digital stations has reduced its power, a pre-amp may help, but needs to be VHF/UHF type. I got a couple of new cheap ones of ebay (RCA model) that works very good. Can be mounted inside near tv or before a splitter, if more than 1 tv.

Being a rental house, not much you can really do without asking landlord etc.

Good luck, note to that weather plays a part in the digital UHF world.
OP | Post 6 made on Friday January 11, 2013 at 11:05
wogster
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Well, the station with no sound is snowy, so I think it's most likely that the TV, is blanking the sound, so you don't get the hiss that comes with a snowy picture.  I don't think the landlord cares much, as long as you don't destroy the place.  A pre-amp may help anyway, but money is tight, until I get work again....
Post 7 made on Saturday January 12, 2013 at 09:53
Nueatit
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If its snowy, probably still analog, digital signals are go or no go, no snow.
OP | Post 8 made on Saturday January 12, 2013 at 11:16
wogster
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On January 12, 2013 at 09:53, Nueatit said...
If its snowy, probably still analog, digital signals are go or no go, no snow.

Oh that one is analog, and is likely to remain analog, I think we got the one digital channel because they had a major equipment failure -- they were off the air for 4-5 days -- then came back and they had the were going digital announcement.  That digital station came in well enough that the scan got it, and it's moved, from analog 4 to digital 4-1 so it's the same channel, right? Nope, it's now physical 26, not sure if that is a permanent move, or whether they plan on shifting back to 4, considering that there is nothing on 25 or 27 remotely close to here, and that UHF has better reach for less power, it may be permanent.  
Post 9 made on Sunday January 13, 2013 at 10:40
wilspin
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You have 2 local analogue stations, 2 & 4 CTV & Global. One north the other is south. Best digital is 7-1 Global east and 10 (3-1) CTV2 south but will require high quality equipment and pre amp and rotor. The rest are too far to be reliable. Worth the investment for 4 channels?
OP | Post 10 made on Sunday January 13, 2013 at 13:29
wogster
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Your right, there

Channel 2, is about 24km (15 miles) away and at 110kw, I could get it with a hunk of bare wire, it's a repeater of Kitchener's CTV station.  Channel 4 went digital on December 20th, as I said already, they were out for almost a week, and then announced the digital switchover, I don't know if this had already been planned or whether they had a major equipment failure and decided to replace some analog gear with digital gear, they did switch from channel 4 to 26.  One of the issues with Shaw's announcement page, it should tell you that it's physically moved, because although it sigs as 4-1, it's actually 26, not sure if this is permanent or temporary.  Channel 8, is an analog repeater of London's CTV-TWO channel, it sometimes comes in better then others.  It's hard to find data on this stuff, unless you already know it. 
OP | Post 11 made on Monday January 21, 2013 at 07:39
wogster
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Update, heavy winds on Saturday night managed to turn the antenna so it's now about where it should be.  If I had a supersoaker water gun, I'd shoot it, and let it freeze in place.  Global 4-Digital is coming in well enough to lock, and channel 8 is clear as a bell.  The old antenna works like a charm....
Post 12 made on Saturday January 26, 2013 at 03:06
Ernie Gilman
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There's no difference between an analog TV antenna and a digital TV antenna.

New antennas won't work better because the old ones did nto work, but because the new ones aren't corroded and broken.
Most new antennas are still 300 ohm devices but have a matching transformer -- the famour 300 ohm to 75 ohm flat lead to coax transformer -- on them so you can use coax. You could just as well use twin lead, but nobody does.

The comment that antennas with coax coming off them are newer antennas may just be the comment of youth with little experience. I put up Winegard antennas that could take twin leads, but had a PC board you could add on for a coax feed, in 1985 (and since). That's 18 years ago, old enough to corrode to death. The latest antenna I put up for myself was a ChannelMaster that had a 300 ohm output and a matching transformer, so a coax downlead.
A good answer is easier with a clear question giving the make and model of everything.
"The biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place." -- G. “Bernie” Shaw
OP | Post 13 made on Saturday January 26, 2013 at 16:34
wogster
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On January 26, 2013 at 03:06, Ernie Gilman said...
There's no difference between an analog TV antenna and a digital TV antenna.

New antennas won't work better because the old ones did nto work, but because the new ones aren't corroded and broken.
Most new antennas are still 300 ohm devices but have a matching transformer -- the famour 300 ohm to 75 ohm flat lead to coax transformer -- on them so you can use coax. You could just as well use twin lead, but nobody does.

The comment that antennas with coax coming off them are newer antennas may just be the comment of youth with little experience. I put up Winegard antennas that could take twin leads, but had a PC board you could add on for a coax feed, in 1985 (and since). That's 18 years ago, old enough to corrode to death. The latest antenna I put up for myself was a ChannelMaster that had a 300 ohm output and a matching transformer, so a coax downlead.

Right now the antenna is working, perfectly, if I owned the place rather then rent, I would put up a new antenna, I would put it on the main roof, with a grounding link, just before it comes inside, then run the cable in the attic until I can drop it down inside the framing to the livingroom or to the basement.  Considering it would be up another 10' I don't think I even need an amplifier. 

What is irritating though, now that Global is digital, the old VCR can't record Global shows, debating a couple of solutions, one would be a digital tuner box, that I could set to Global and then let the VCR's analog tuner deal with the other two channels, so for example if the digital tuner outputs composite, then the composite input would be used for Global, if it outputs RF then I would simply record that channel.  What I will probably do is take an old WindowsXP computer, throw a tuner card in it and go from there....
Post 14 made on Sunday January 27, 2013 at 11:16
Nueatit
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My opinion, cheaper for aa digital tv tuner $39 with composite video and audio output fed into VCR, however, picturer quality not too good. I have the same problem but got a Toshiba DVD recorder, HDMI to S-Video converter box, and using digit TV tuner. Quality not too bad BUT not comparable to HD!


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