Really good work! It worked just as advertised and
it is a big improvement.

Buzz:

You make good points and I earnestly sympathize with your situation.

Please also consider though what jcl wrote in this forum on 11/11/03 regarding the IR delay problem:

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"This is my number one problem with the remote... I have several customers with system ranging from 50,000 to 100,000 that want to return the remotes and are refusing to finish paying for the system, because they say the system doesn't work. In reality the remote is slow, and occasionally will skip commands in long sequences.

My company is seriously considering dropping the prontos and using the MX-800 and 3000 when available. Or at least cutting down on prontos greatly. Some response from Philips or ProntoTeam would go a long way to making me and my company feel better about there product."

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I'm not at all saying he's right and you're wrong -- not in the least. However, it does give me some sympathy for Philips in what seems like a "damned if you do..." situation for them.

The IR transmission speed was slow -- users screamed. They sped up the IR transmission -- others are screaming about that.

I am not saying that there shouldn't be any requests for changes or even complaints, but it does give me a glimpse into why some companies adopt a "screw you -- you'll take what we give you" attitude.

If nothing else, I hope we can all agree that at least Philips is trying to do right by us (and in many cases succeeding).

Just an update - we did continue to sell prontos and have been very up front with our customers about the ongoing situation with the prontos. We tried MX 800s in a couple houses and they were well received but not nearly as customizable as a pronto.

In my opinion - with or without the problems the pronto is still the best bang for the buck.

Just a brief look at the updates they seem to address my biggest issues with the remote.

Quoting MThompson:
"However, it does give me some sympathy for Philips in what seems like a "damned if you do..." situation for them.

The IR transmission speed was slow -- users screamed. They sped up the IR transmission -- others are screaming about that."

In regards to this...
Is my earlier reply in this thread which I've posted below not something Phillips could have done and perhaps still can do in the future?

"Anyway, would it be possible for the Pronto Team to add an option under the device properties RF tab in the editor where we could set the IR burst length. The options would be "Long" IR burst, like it was before this firmware update, and the other option would be "Short" IR burst, like it is now.

This would allow the end user to simply enter the IR burst length they need per device. If I could set the IR burst length back to what it was before this most recent firmware and editor update my issues in this regard would be resolved and I'd never have to look back. Having the option as an end user (when feasible) instead of globally changing something for everyone is a win win for all concerned.

If the Pronto Team would consider integrating such an option as I have described above in the next firmware and editor update that would be greatly appreciated."

Having the option for long or short IR burst length per device in the editor and supported in the firmware would provide the greatest compatibility for all the varied equipment out there. Don't other remote control products in the marketplace offer this type of flexibility?

-Lowpro


This message was edited by Lowpro on 03/30/04 22:46.

I read it in another thread. Delete the battery, time and date from the system page. Then add them back on the system page. Goto Insert > System Item.

The discrete power commands for JVC VCR's no longer works unless you hold the button even in a macro. Never had these problems with 2000's or 1000's. Tried sending 3 in a row. Didn't work. Any ideas?

Lowpro:


Yes -- and I hope they will. What you suggest is a great idea, but programming wise, I'm sure it's a much taller order than altering the IR transmission delay.


I imagine some do (like Home Theater Master?), but I know for a fact others don't -- not even close -- that's why I graduated myself to the Pronto.

You (and others) make very good points and my posts are not meant to flatly disagree. I just want to bring another perspective to it -- that personally, I'm happy and not a little surprised that Philips has given us as much support and attention as they have. While it may not be ideal, it is significantly above the norm relative to my personal experience with consumer electronics companies.

With all that said, suggestions like yours go right to the heart of why we all bought Prontos in the first place -- customization to suit individual preference.

I posted this in another thread, but thought it made sense to also post it here. A couple of days ago my Pronto just "died." It was completely unresponsive, even though it was fully charged (I use the rechargeable battery and the docking station). I removed the battery and then reinstalled it and it came back to life. I have no idea if this is as a result of the new firmware, but it never happened to me before I did the upgrade. Also, I read in another thread that the same thing happened to someone else, and he hasn't been able to get his up and running. It appears this may have something to do with the new firmware. Does anyone on the Pronto team care to comment?

I have a JVC VCR, Model S3600U. I'm not having any problems with the discrete power commands on my TSU3000 with the new firmware. Suggest you try re-assigning them.

THe one thing that gets many people is that they expected the 3000 to be like the 2000 or 1000 (what gave them that idea, couldn't possibly be the sequntial numbering scheme ;-) ) but better. However, it appears that Philips did not fully understand the things that the users thought were great about the 1/2000's and made a bunch of changes for the sake of improvements, but in reality, totally changed the good things about the remote. It is frustrating to have things that just worked perfectly before, now won't work on the 3000.

You make good points and I share your frustration (regarding the Pronto and many other situations in consumer electronics and life in general) where, in a mad dash to "improve" something, they broke what didn't need fixing in the first place. You'll have to be the judge, but I believe I "get it."

With that said, don't you think "totally changed the good things about the remote" is a significant overstatement? From 2000 to 3000, they doubled the RAM, doubled the gray shades, provided a much crisper screen, took hard buttons from 8 to 20, etc.

The 2000 was not the holy grail. For instance, it has a design flaw that used to bug the [email protected]*%# out of me. I was always having to futz with the contrast because its control is just an unprotected wheel on the side of the unit that constantly got inadvertently adjusted brushing against clothing, furniture, etc.

Is the 3000 perfect? No.
Would I like to see more changes like those discussed here? Yes.
Is the glass at least half full? Absolutely.

I agree that the support from Philips is way above what most CE vendors provide. However, I think they are obligated to provided that support given the nature of the product. Most CE products are fixed function, non-upgradeable items. You buy your TV or VCR with the functions stated in the literature. It either works as advertised or you bring it back. If it doesn't have the features you want, you can make the decision to buy it and live without those features, or find a product that has them.

Since the advent of the PC, we've been introduced to "bugs". Nobody's happy with them, but we've learned to accept them. This has caused a problem that has escalated. Since we have actively or passively accepted the existence and inevitabilty of bugs, manufacturers are less inclined to perfect a product before releasing it. If it has a bug, we're told an update is coming and be patient, or it will be fixed in the next model. So we make the decision to use the product in a less-than-advertised state, even though we paid for a fully-functioning product. As this phenomena continues, we become more and more accepting of buggy products.

I, for one, am happy that a lot of CE products are upgradeable. It allows me access to features that may have not been promised in the original product. There's a downside to this upgradeability, though. It allows manufacturers to release products before they're ready for primetime. There's also the possibility that an upgrade will cause new and more bothersome problems. Just ask Lowpro.

My .02.

Dear Pronto NG users,

A new firmware V. 3.1.15 is available at www.pronto.philips.com

This firmware solves the double press issue on the smart surf and Nav mode button

regards
The Philips ProntoTeam

Did the download...problem solved!! Thanks again to the team for your increased level of communication with the user community and the quick response to this particular issue. Its appreciated.

Even though I prefer the old way the hard buttons behaved, where all the lower hard buttons backlit only on first key press, I do appreciate these lower hard buttons now all working the same way. Thanks Pronto Team for the update.

-Lowpro