Ok, I have done alot of research about both of the remotes. I have heard arguments against/for both. I am leaning towards the Pronto but I have some concerns.

1) I was told the Pronto does not have as much memory capacity as the Madrigal.

2) Madrigal can do RF signals with a module, Pronto will never.

3) Since Madrigal is in conjunction with Microsoft, software and firmware will be more readily available (more updates) than the pronto.

4) The pronto needs many pages to replicate all buttons on a remote. This is due to icon sizes.
This could be cumbersome. Is the Madrigal the same?

5) Will there be a next generation of Pronto in the works due out soon that is worth the wait?

6) Marantz 5000 is due out, I was told that the LCD screen was bigger with improvements over the Pronto.

Sorry for the many questions and points. I just want to be an informed buyer. If there are any points which any of you can provide me to make an easier decision, it would be most appreciate.

I am excite to buy one, but $400 is alot to swallow. I just don't want to make a bad/uninformed choice. Thanks for the help.

Ted

I've just completed my review of the Take Control (will be up by Friday) so I can answer some of your questions.

1) I haven't seen any specifications for the amount of memory built-in the IRIQ/Take Control. The Pronto has more than enough (and I mean it!).

2) I haven't seen this specific adaptor... AFAIK there is third party equipment you can purchase that will work with any remote.

3) Philips has taken a very active role in software development. Already a few bugs have been found and fixed by the great folks from Philips that visit here. A new update hasn't been posted yet, but the software's only been out for under two weeks.

4) This is more due to the usable limitations of LCD screens. On the Pronto you can make buttons 1x1 pixel if you REALLY want, but they'd be completely unusable. The Take Control has a limit of one screen of 20 square buttons per "activity" (with links to macros, other activity screens, the device menu, etc. arranged in any fashion you like). There's more or less an unlimited number of screens for each device, however each page is limited to 16 buttons which can't be rearranged. Basically you need multiple screens for both.

5) There's always a "next generation", especially for something as new and popular as the Pronto - but I doubt it will be out any time soon. The current Pronto is quite refined for a first generation product.

6) All information on the Marantz 5000 is hearsay until it's actually available. Philips owns Marantz. Philips designed the Pronto. Marantz is merely attaching their name to it. Will it be bigger, better? Who knows. That could be a reasonable explanation for the delay, however everything I've heard leads me to believe it will be the same as the Pronto but with the docking station included.

If you're leaning towards the Pronto you won't be disappointed.

>
> Ok, I have done alot of research about both of the remotes. I have heard arguments against/for
> both. I am leaning towards the Pronto but I have some concerns.
>
> 1) I was told the Pronto does not have as much memory capacity as the Madrigal.

They may have to do with the fact the Madrigial is Windows CE based and not quite
as lean as the Pronto.

> 2) Madrigal can do RF signals with a module, Pronto will never.

Never, say never, unlikely yes.

> 3) Since Madrigal is in conjunction with Microsoft, software and firmware will be more readily
> available (more updates) than the pronto.

I believe the only association with Microsoft is that it's Windows CE based.
So far Pronto seems to be more "readily available" and has already release updates for the firmware.

> 4) The pronto needs many pages to replicate all buttons on a remote. This is due to icon sizes.
> This could be cumbersome. Is the Madrigal the same?

As Daniel said, any button can be practically any size (and any shape too).
Try downloading prontoedit and some folks configuartion files and see what they have done.

>
> 5) Will there be a next generation of Pronto in the works due out soon that is worth the wait?

Tic-Toc-Tic-Toc

> 6) Marantz 5000 is due out, I was told that the LCD screen was bigger with improvements over
> the Pronto.

If your concerned about stretching $400.00 and you have your eye on something potentially
bigger and better it will very likely cost more (if available today). I think Pronto has this
price point in the bag for a while.

>
> Sorry for the many questions and points. I just want to be an informed buyer. If there are any
> points which any of you can provide me to make an easier decision, it would be most appreciate.
>
> I am excite to buy one, but $400 is alot to swallow. I just don't want to make a bad/uninformed
> choice. Thanks for the help.

There are bargain prices out there but local dealers are easier to "try before you buy" and
can save you some grief in the long run.

>
> Ted

--
==========================================
George Mills
email: [email protected]
http://www.softronix.com
The www page contains some very powerful educational software.
Our single most important investment is our kids.

It took me a couple of minutes in the store with both units to decide that the Pronto was the
right choice for me. The IRIQ I played with (Harman Kardon) was far bulkier, and dog slow.
Whether you rolled one detent or three, there was a near-second delay before the menu caught up.
The menu items were wide but short, and hard to operate by finger. The actual button displays
appeared to restrict placement to a fixed grid,
which wasn't as friendly as the Pronto layout.
The IRIQ has superior physical buttons; they're nice and rubbery, and distinctively shaped. It's
the firmware that's disappointing.

I don't know why everybody assumes the IRIQ is a WinCE box and therefore "more upgradeable". What I've heard is that they wanted to use WinCE to
show off it's capabilities as an embedded OS, but the hardware footprint required was far too big to
fit on the IRIQ platform, so they canned it and used something else. IRIQ is meant to be a really
inexpensive platform; right now they're squeezing you for the gee-whiz factor. You'll might also
note the conspicuous absence of any mention of WinCE in the IRIQ press releases.

So far, I'm satisfied with my choice, and especially impressed with Philips participation
in this forum in the person of Jan van Ee. Bravo, Philips.

-dave

Thanks for the information!!! I forgot some points:

1) On the Pronto, is the backlight better than the Madrigal? I have seen the Madrigal, but it was awful! Couldn't see a damn thing in the dark even with it on.

2) From an overall perspective, the ease of use? This includes, screen layout, paging feature, macros, editing, prontoedit, etc. I am buying this to help myself, but mostly for my wife!! :)))

Ted

I also found the screen on the Madrigal poor. I think you will find the Pronto screen nicer.

It's a combination, of backlight color, backlight brightness and the graphics themselves all are slightly better but together they make the difference I was looking for.

Ted,

1.) Who told you this? I can not find any specs regarding available memory on the Take Control. However, the specs do say that it is limited to 15 devices, whereas the Pronto goes to 255 (and believe me, you can get very creative with devices). Plus, based on the CCFs that I've seen, the Pronto has quite a bit of room, memory-wise. I can't imagine the Take Control having more.

2.) Again, where did you here this? If it is true, the module probably only converts the TC's own signals to RF, then to IR at a receiver (still controlling IR devices). This trick can be done with any IR remote. I doubt the module would have any RF "learning" ability (nor are there any "universal" RF codes that I'm aware of).

3.) Phillips isn't exactly a garage operation either. Plus, many are happy with the ProntoEdit software as-is. Still, it is apparent that upgrades will be coming (some minor fixes have already been mentioned). AFA Microsoft is concerned, its name attached to anything usually comes with a 50% speed penalty :-).

4.) The Pronto can have any button size you like (and with any bitmap you want). On the other hand, buttons on the TC are limited to a 4 by 5 grid. AFA pages are concerned, in my case, I have my Pronto devices setup with as few panels (pages) as possible.

5.) There's always going to be something else around the corner, but at least the Pronto is a very new product. In fact, as far as I'm concerned, the Pronto was "born" the day ProntoEdit was released. That was only two weeks ago.

The advantage that I see to the TC, if any, is the wheel, and its setup wizard. The Pronto, even with its "templates," is almost a blank canvas--you paint it anyway you like (literally). Getting it set-up like many here have done--or are in the process of doing--can be a daunting task. I happen to enjoy setting it up, and the power and flexibility that it (the Pronto) offers. However, it is possible that someone might like the easier-to-setup "wizard" approach of the TC.


-Mike

The absolute BEST backlight I've seen is on the RM-AV2000. You can read a book to that thing. A tad noisy however.

I actually prefer the grayscale on the Take Control unit. Light gray, mid gray, dark gray, etc. are all nice and viewable. The backlight could probably be brighter for use in medium-low light levels.

I find with the Pronto that by the time "dark gray" is discernible from "black", "light gray" is almost indistinguishable from "white". Perhaps that's just my unit. I'll be receiving a replacement soon, so I can double check on it then.

Dan,

I agree that the AV2000 has a nice backlight. However, keep in mind that it's not encumbered by a dot-addressable display. Also, its "touch" panel differs greatly from typical touch screens (as used on the Pronto, PDAs, etc.) in that it uses a hard-wired grid. This grid eliminates the need for the "touch layer" that often reduces contrast, and clouds the backlight, on typical touch screen devices.

-Mike

Michael: Maybe, but Sony started off with a REALLY bright backlight in the first place, as can be testified by the noise it makes. I believe other manufacturers use that panel as a nightlight. A bit overkill, but it does make an impression on friends. :)

As Michael Lynch was saying, the set-up of the Pronto can be fairly involved since you're starting with a blank slate. But all the time I spent doing it (software wasn't available yet), I had a blast. In fact, after configuring everything about as far as I could go without the software, I was disappointed to be done with it.

It's kind of like reading a good book. You want to finish it, but once you do, you can't look forward to reading it anymore.

But now that the software is out, it's a whole new story (pun intended). I could stop now, and I've got one heckuva remote control. But refining it and incorporating new ideas is just plain addictive.

Does the backlight of the Pronto turn on automatically based on available light?

Justme: Yes!

Justme,

No it doesn't. It turns on based on you touching the display, and whether or not the ambient light is below the threshold you have set in the setup menu using the (Set) and (Level buttons). If it does turn on, it will stay on as long as has been set by the (LCD) timer.
It will turn on regardless of room light if you push the backlight button. If you are above ambient light threshold, it will stay on based on the (LCD Light) timer. If you are below that threshold it will turn on and stay on based, again, on the (LCD) timer regardless of whether or not the room light changes.
This is not an RC2000 that turns the backlight on and off whenever the ambient light in the room changes without you even so much as looking at the damned thing, wasting batteries by the pound. Much better idea.

Wayne

> This is not an RC2000 that turns the backlight on and off whenever the ambient light in the room
> changes without you even so much as looking at the damned thing, wasting batteries by the pound.
> Much better idea.

Yeah, my RC2000 on a cloudy day would oscilate between on and off and never time out.

I found I like the light to come on no matter what room light is on the Pronto and set the threshold to the min. The room is never super bright.