I agree as well, every product mentioned here with exception to Magnavox I had NO idea that Phillips had anything to do with it.

Like Sony, mentioned above, if they come out with something that needs to stand apart it is part of a 'line'. I do not remember at the moment what it is called but they have a line of home audio/video that is supposed to be high end, they still call it Sony with something, that something that I can not remember right now, after it.

Which is actually case in point, I don't remember the whatever after it, but the important thing is I know it is Sony! They did there job.

Additionally I have always thought of Phillips as a low-end piece of goods, I got the remote because it is cool and color, if Sony had something that was color I would have bought that over Phillips any day.

Now the question here is my opinion correct? Is Sony better than Phillips? If yes by how much? What defines better, product quality or customer care or both?

Do I have any hard facts to backup my opinion of Sony over Phillips, nope! What Phillips needs to understand is that I don't have to have anything to back it up, the fact that I don't buy Phillips stuff is what they need to worry about. If my decision is influenced by marketing, or the lack there of (which I am sure that is at least part of it), then they need to do something about that if they want to sell me something.

Now when I say 'I' I am giving MY viewpoint, which is relevant here as they do not seem to be happy with the lack of market share that they hold, which means that there are LOTS of "I's" out there. Not each 'I' is hooked on Sony as I am but they are hooked on something other than Phillips.

By the looks of it they manufacturer some pretty cool stuff. Fixing the problem of market share is easy, marketing that tells everyone that they are the best (people believe anything, look at GM and Ford) and then maybe even back it up with a decent call center to give people some warm and fuzzies. When something breaks, and it is out of warranty, fix it anyway! Not 5 years later but maybe for the first couple years or 1.5 years, even on a 90-day warranty. Sony did that for me a while back on a digital camera, do you think for one minute that I did not tell everyone about how Sony took care of me? I called them up and they said you know what, its going to be ok. Here is our Fed X number, send that baby back to us so we can get you a new one Mr. Williams!


I was already a Sony fan; do you think I would leave them now? Even if I got a piece of crap here or there? Nope!

Phillips, if you are reading this: LISTEN! If you want market share, kiss a little ass here and there! EVERYONE will hear about it!

Shows you the value of aggressive marketing. Philips has always been regarded as a niche company here in the States, just because it didn't market as extensively or aggressively as the Japanese companies. And the irony of that is that they were one of the prime innovators in the VCR field, along with RCA.

Maybe they are trying already. I heard someone say today "I want one of those flat screen TV's Philips makes." This person would never be able to buy one, but my point is they were mentioning Philips in particular when there are other flat screens out there. Knowing that they make a product like this could influence them on a cheaper TV. I also noticed that the Philips products are front and center at my local Best Buy. That along with their NEO exclusive deal makes me think they may have some partnership which would be very good. Check out your local Best Buy and see if it's the same. We have also seen in recent year Magnavox products labeled as Philips/Magnavox. This stuff will take time, but lets just hope they see results before they cut out.

Bomberjim: all I meant was that customer service and warranty tends to be the last thing on your mind when you buy a product, and it might come into play if and only if you find the exact same thing at the same price.
Also CS for the Pronto is outsourced, someone from the helpdesk told us that. Plus what software is not buggy (less alone one for a remote). Look at any MS product. Just the other day I found out that IE 5.5 has a lot of bugs WRT Java applets, and it was causing crashes on my testers PC.

Joel: Like I said above, when I first got the Pronto I was so impressed with it that I wanted to find out if they had any other cool stuff I could use. What I found out, like you did with VCR, that they are always at the forefront of cool new stuff, and have had a hand in bringing about a lot of today's technology. They must have some great R&D teams, or at the least they now where to get good ideas.

Anthony,

Your points are well taken. I guess for me, a couple of experiences of buying a product and then finding out that the manufacturer only provides the warrantee if you purchase from an "authorized dealer" has made me more cautious concerning warrantee and support. In many cases they don't tell you this on their website, or anywhere else except on the warrantee card. This is a very underhanded practice. Luckily, I haven't needed a warrantee repair. You are correct on buggy software, however, most companies don't include software in the box and then claim it's not supported. I disagree that "outsourcing" CS means it has to be bad. Many, perhaps even most, companies do it, not all of them have bad CS.

I guess I just kinda took minor offense at the "why did you buy ..." comment. It sounded too much like the "America love it or leave it" routine. In any event no harm no foul. Peace.

Jim L

I agree, I find it sucks, and I am sure that it is probably a way for them not to have to deal with the com problem and canceled downloads (but unofficially I am sure a lot of the answers must have been leaked, to me it is one of those things where they keep their hands clean.


I never said that. I just think it makes accountability for the service more murky. Is Philips tying their hands, or is it not well run. But on a more personal note , I only called once (broken screen on one Pronto and I did not have a problem with them)



I did not mean it in that way, it was meant in the way, that the reasons to buy a Pronto far outweigh the reasons not to buy one.

They have got to improve customer service. My pronto has no failed me so I have not had to deal with them regarding that but I have had a TIVO in for a month. When I sent it in they said 2 to 5 days. Currently my Tivo is out in UPS land somewhere and i cannot get a tracking code from philips. As a matter of fact You cannot even contact philips about your Tivo. You have to go through Tivo and Philips doesn't tell them much either.

Now here is the kicker...Sony services their own Tivo units and you can contact Sony CS directly. Same unit...same insides...but Sony gives you the feeling, true or perceived, as caring more. So, they change 100 more for the same unit and get it.

Philips makes great products but they need to get the CS together.

Will

While we're sorta on the CS subject. Can you imagine what would have happened if this forum didn't exist???? Does anyone think that Philips CS could have solved even half the problems, questions, etc. that are solved here? I wonder how many Prontos would have been returned without this knowledge base or the files section. Lots more chargers would have been returned without Bruce's battery tips. Given that most of my friends/associates don't even know what a Pronto is, this forum is also a major source of advertising.

Here's a not too far fetched scenario. This resourse doesn't exist, Lots of units returned and sales would suffer greatly. Additional product development is not deemed profitable and hence no Pro model and maybe even no 2000 or clones. In fact the line might have been terminated altogether due to lack of volume. I really don't think this is too farfetched.

Jim L

Jim: I agree RC is the best tool, and I have said before that Daniel's review was crucial in getting me to try the Pronto. On the other hand it does also produce problems (more demands) I am sure there are people with games, calendars, songs.... and trying other stuff they would otherwise not try. And people might not have asked for more stuff (like the beeps and timers, the multiple jumps and backs...).

I am sure the TSU-2000 and 6000 are byproducts of this site and prontoedit.com. There was a lot of demands for the features that were added (UDB, RF, Color and more memory for CD collections). But in their favor, they did listen and improved a great product.

To be honest, I am not a great fan of CSs in general. I find that most of them (if not all) are manned by talking FAQ databases, where you get a canned answer or an I don't know try the other department. Also when there was a big rebooting problem someone from the CS did try and organize information on this site to be passed to the more technical engineering department to find a solution.

P.S. If you look at some of the other forums, you will notice that there is not much activity, so it is a mutual feeding. If the Pronto sucked no one would buy one, no one would try and get more out of it, no one would be here to help.
I know one of the reasons I come here is to see what is the next thing people will come up with.

Anthony,

I agree completely.

Jim L

Philips should stop selling to the lower department stores, i.e. Best Buy, Wiz, Circuit City, etc. and concentrate on the specialty stores. For example, I went to the Wiz (local chain store) and they had the Philips Plasma TV on display. They were driving it with a composite signal, not even S-video and a big sign above the TV read "You are watching Hi-Definition TV". That would never happen in a specialty store. Remote Central had 88,000 messages posted about the Pronto Remote. Can you imagine if half the people called Philips technical for support? They would have pulled out last year.
Zinon

zinon: not all posts are technical, and there are others that are redundant (two people answering the same question), but it is also true that there must be some users that find the answer and don't post and others that don't know about this place. And I am sure if they cannot help, they probably send them here (I think I read a post or two with that comment in the past)