If I stick with URC, I agree this is AN approach, maybe the only approach for the low volume buyer/"consumer" (vs a dealer/distributer/or CI). Since we are commiting the labor hours to program I don't understand getting marked up equipment with no value added other than supplying a site for updates.

On the issue of not being orphaned, a number of 950s we have with software prior to TURN OFF DAY are still finiky but get better with every release, but I guess I should be content with unsupported equipment and learning every equipment code.

As to attitude, the 95% attitude here is that I'm a janitor, liar, somehow cannot be a URC consumer if I'm a gov't contractor, don't add up and other obnoxious accusations. Two people have been minimally helpful, and the rest have been immature jerks. So if I have an attitude I apologize. I guess I should have kept the issue quiet to keep this ponzy scheme for support quiet. You can keep your black & white world of custom installers vs grey market screwed consumers. I truthfully dont care about that debate, despite endless bemoaning out of self-interest.

Our installations involves about 5% A/V gear, and control components are less than 1%, much less. They are a convenience item for users, which helps acceptance/stakeholder buy-in of the overall systems. They are not IR, they are RF. Some stations are MRF-250s, some are 300 based. Swapping out remotes from a cost of system is negligible. Labor hours for programming would be substantive, but it will be more of a hassle to change the baselines of all the centers. Even with that the labor costs will be a small blip, but the removal of items people like is probably the bigger impact.

So lets all hold hands and say together, Fock the DIY consumer, Folk the low volume buyer who at time of purchase bought a commodity product investing their own labor and then have the rules change, Hooray for charging more labor hours, Hooray obnoxiousness, obstinance, and condascending attitudes.

At a minimum I know vendors who I'll never deal with....

I don't make a thing from URC's new policy. The web grey market pricing hasn't been a problem for me, but it has caused problems for Universal. If all they cared about was profit, they would have raised dealer cost on everyone.

You argue from both sides of the cost of product issue.
An MX900 and a MRF300 retail at $600.00. If you look at the cost of an RTI T2+ alone you've gone over that before buying the RF system. And don't forget that you will need a IR learning module because even though you are running everything RF the equipment needs IR commands from something.

As far as the cost of any controller is concerned, the cost of programming is a major portion of the remote cost. Taking care of warranty issues is expensive too.
I don't sell large quantities of remotes either, and I'm sure that there are installers that install about the number you use each year. There are purchasing options for situations like yours as well, but it's not appropriate for this forum.

I'm sure you are a nice guy, but you started a thread that was full of hate from the very title, and most of us feel that was the wrong approach for finding a solution.

Welcome to Remote Central! If you dish it out, then take it.


Chicken or the egg? You seemed to have attitude in the first post, then... well, just about every post. But somehow everybody else who dishes it back are immature jerks?



And you wonder why we have questions. URC remotes don't control any 'RF equipment.' They merely use proprietary RF to transmit existing/standardized IR codes. The equipment is technically not 'RF controlled.' Not only that, in 'command/control' systems and the like, most of the AV gear used would be controlled, even if only for power or input switching.

It doesn't add up, so I'd think you'd understand why we have questions.


That's a great way to ask for help. I looks like you're here more to vent and get in squabbles.

Mark, I agree with all these points, including labor being the predominant cost which is why we could switch to another vendor. Just more sunk cost, the remote cost being neglible. Lifecycle sustainment is a more driving requirement we have to deal with.

I know there must be an option like you state. I'm disappointed URC couldn't just point me in the right direction. I'll trying working the regional distributor route.


Mark, you are ABSOLUTELY right. I admit I started the thread out angrily because I was at wits end. Most of the responses (troll, doesn't add up, scam) didn't indicate a very helpful or thoughtful community, but like you said, I set the tone.

We'll see were it goes. I likely won't buy another URC product for my own use, but the users are very comfortable with the setup and I hate to switch over happy users. Worst case we can probably hold out until the next major baseline upgrade and reassess then, the challenge being the end users pulling in funky devices, touch monitors, and other esoteric products. Like I said up front (amidst the angry words) I know support cost money, and we're willing to pay annual (or whatever frequency) support costs, but I couldn't get URC to even acknowledge such an approach. Working in this sector I'm used to bureaucracy, just not so much in the commercial world. Thanks,
Tim

ok - i have a great idea.

the next 850 or 950 you purchase, get from an AD THEN you'll have software for all the other units. An AD MIGHT cost $50 more thN FLEA BAY

URC makes a great product, what they did to their past customers with their recent changes is very poor support. They should use this good support you speak of and not rely on their dealers for support. URC needs to support all it's customers regardless of their place of purchase.

Well my name is Richard Simmons, that guy on TV that does exercises, his name really isn't, I think his real name suits him better, its Maurice.

I know quite a bit about the electronics industry, Home Theater has been my hobby as long as I can remember, I enjoy it tremendously... I think programing an MX-850 remote is very very easy... seems some of the CI's here think it is difficult, hmmm, maybe they should look for a different job.

URC bashed themselves, I want them to come to their senses.

Out of the two authorized dealers I bought some of the units from, one provides no software & the other provides a crippled download site for one remote that doesn't even work. I have been trying to keep there names out of this because they have been generally responsive in the past, just not so responsive now.

So the theory is good, but the execution is risky. I guess I can ask new dealers if I can have rights to both sets of software, and keep going until I find one that says yes. It's a hack approach though and I'm hoping someone in the distribution chain will be cooperative and establish an arrangement even if it costs more than the cost of a new remote.

If you go to RTI, you will have the issue that unless you are an authorized dealer, you will not have access to the software either. From what you describe, you are qualified to be able to buy from a URC distributor. Call URC on Tues. and they will give you the name of their distributor in about 2 min. How hard is that? Or go to the link that CMA posted yesterday.

Rudolpht,

If you need remotes and software with functional updates, there are two solutions for you:

1) If you are business with sales tax / reseller ID - call URC, ask for the rep or distributor in your area. I worked there, so I know that getting those answers are not difficult. Any sales person should be able to guide you in the right direction. Actually, the receptionist may also be able to help you get to the right sales rep.

2) If you are a not a business (no sales tax or reseller ID) - buy from an Authorized Dealer. Any Authorized Dealer should be providing you with editor software with a functional Live Update feature. I provide this to all of my customers, as do other Authorized Dealers.

Those are your only two options.



Thank you,
Damon DG
= = = = =
http://www.ProRemotes.com - Authorized Dealer & Remote Programming Services

But those only two options leave out the many URC customers who already bought their remotes from sources who have no "Live Updatable" software for them. Pity nice remotes, terrible support. As a customer they have now lost my support. I don't like a company that treats it's customers this way.

OK... holes and dots.

I see a lot of wholes in the story, but some of it seem to be intentonal. (you stated that you were not naming names on purpose.)

Here we go...

I don't know where you buy your URC. But URC is at EVERY DISTRO WE DEAL WITH.

Now you stated that you could go to RTI...

OK RIGHT THERE.

(This is no industry secret here.)

RTI IS ONLY SOLD THROUGH AVAD IN THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA.
[Link: rticorp.com]

AVAD SELLS URC.
[Link: avad.com]

YOU MUST BE DEALING WITH AVAD.

One phone call to the sales desk at AVAD was all it took to get access to the dealer software.

You do or will need to have an account with them to get RTI on the up and up.That is why noone believes you.

Now if you are sidewaysing stuff through some other market... then things are different.

One note to the original poster. If you are a consumer, as you stated earlier, you will not be able to get any software from RTI to do your programing. RTI's software is only available to authorized installers.

Another note regarding RTI being less "consumer" focused and not switching mid-stream like URC; That is exactly what RTI did. They formarly sold the t-2 that included software with every remote sold. These often fell into the hands of diy and the like. RTI chose with their next generation remotes to only make the software available to installers. So I don't know if you will find that the grass is greener with RTI.

At least at this point, URC is still making the software available to end-users that purchase through authorized channels.

Good luck either way you go. Look at it this way, you could blame it all on URC and get a decent payday resourcing all of these remotes with programming. :)

I purchased my MX-700 remote in 2003; I can't possibly remember who I bought it from, although I do remember that I made a point of buying it from an authorized dealer...in any event, how would I, as a consumer, have any idea, if a dealer was authorized?

In any event, URC won't even respond to me now through emails. So my remote is toast.

This is just about the least consumer friendly move I can remember...completely punative to previous buyers.

You do not keep records or receipts for your electronics?

WTF? Toast? did it break? Even if you do not have the software on your PC, what is preventing you from downloading the most current version of the software here:
[Link: universalremote.com]

I'm glad "noone" believes me, fellow founding member. My point on going to RTI is I would change vendors as a custom installer. I have gone to every echelon of URC at this point (VP, Regional Distributor, Dealer) to become a formal installer or PAY for maintenance. Time is money and it's not worth the time anymore, already pulled trigger to rip out all URC products and throw them away in the next baseline update.

I understand the issues. I actually don't disagree with the approach, but an appropriate business response is change the policy and apply it to all new remotes, with clear labeling on ALL boxes, even ones they semi-intentionally let jump the sales channel because of theft, bad dealers, or stupidity.

As a negligible cost of a system, it's disappointing because they are good products and add value. I won't miss the accusatory attitudes and lack of community however.