Instead of analogies with computers or car parts, let's use goverment.... what in the world?

Taking care of their customers is what they're trying to do, and having them sold on fleabay to anybody who pays for them isn't in the best interest of URC or the vast majority of their customers. These remotes were intended to be set up and programmed by professionals, not the average Joe. However it came to be that they were freely available, that's another story.

These remotes are advertised as 'pro only.' The booklet inside the box implies 'pro only.' URC wants users to go with pros to set it up, or DIYers who are skilled enough to do it themselves, just like you say they should.

This situation has little to do with price control, it has more to do with channel and support control. They're being responsible by corraling in the distribution channel.

How can you back up this statement when this whole problem revolves around the pricing? If all "unauthorized" resellers were advertising the remotes at MAP, do you think all of the Ci's would be complaining? I hardly think so and URC wouldn't be "corraling" anything as they would be enjoying all of the unauthorized sales as well.

Sometimes I think you really must be joking... I seriously can't believe someone thinks these remotes are so complicated to program... Oh please save us from ourselves don't let us buy these remotes without professional help.... on a scale of difficulty 1 - 10, 1 being the easiest 10 the hardest I would give these remotes a 2.

I am amazed that someone honestly thinks these remotes are so complicated to learn. This is very basic intelligence, very basic software, and very simple to learn.

Please stop pretending you are saving us from ourselves by giving full software to some while removing it from others. The bottom line is every customer deserves the same software version or at least the same that came when purchased. The favoritism that some of you will now get updates and some of you won't is ridicules. It is no way to treat your customers, that is why there are many angry customers. They bought one thing and then were given another as a consumer I won't buy from a company like this.. That is one reason I am so angry I like URC remotes but when they act this way I won't buy from them again.

I have the update-able software I am not one of the ones left out by this, but as a customer I am still angry at the way this was done.

Does not matter what product you use to compare them to what URC did was wrong. This was not a fair way to deal with their customers. If the policy only effected new customers and was advertised before being put into effect I would not be complaining and I think there would not have been this thread. But the way this policy was brought about was simply unfair to existing customers.

Robert,

This isn't just about price. The 'whole problem' doesn't revolve around price, that makes me think you don't understand the whole situation. Price is a secondary issue; the primary issue is channel control, and after that price comes, as well as product support, exclusivity, etc.

The answer is yes, if all unauthorized resellers were selling at MAP, CI's would still be complaining. Maybe not as much, but still complaining.

We're not dealing with a benign commodity here, this is a product that requires additional support to make work.

Although i dont agree with the way URC handled this situitation, the remotes certainly do not "require" live update or support just to make it work.. the software will work perfect with or without an IR data base...its pretty much like the pronto software...phillips does not even supply an IR data base you either have to learn everything yourself or look for device files to download and import.

The whole problem doesn't revolve around pricing, and your refusal to believe otherwise merely proves the point that you don't entirely understand what's going on. This tangent is a non sequitir, since it would never happen anyway.


It's not just about 'enjoying sales.' Part of the enjoyment of the product is what it can do, after it's programmed. That's what the CI's (and some authorized sellers) offer and what the unauthorized sellers don't. Some DIYers can program these themselves, but not the majority of people without some serious support. URC was getting taxed on tech support, CI's were getting price shopped by people who think it's all about the money and didn't understand what these products are supposed to do.

There's more to it than MAP. URC wants the remote to come with service. CI's want to provide the remote and upcharge for the service. DIYers just want the remote without the service.

Unauthorized sellers just want to move product and make their $25 a remote. CI's don't want to deal with a remote that can be price shopped off the internet by people who think that it's all 'just about the money,' just like you.

I state that most people can't program them, without some serious help such as long phone calls to URC for basic questions answered. You, and the majority of DIYers on the forum, are the exception.

URC offers classes on how to program remotes. I believe they even offered an 850 class at one point. If they are so easy, then why would URC offer these classes?

Don't take this the wrong way, but what is your experience with remote programming? What would a 10 be, on your scale? A 1? I program 10's, and I program 1's. I think an 850 is about a 4 to a 4.5. Some people can do it (after a few hours), some people can do it with help (and lot's of tech support and farting around on RC). Some can't do it at all.

I know. I have to train people on how to operate systems. The vast majoriy of people I do systems for wouldn't be able to program the remote without a serious committment of time and patience. Many would be able to get it done with a huge committment in time (when they could have saved with a CI), and some won't. There's a small group that could do it as well or better than me, but they're too busy doing other 'smart' things like running techy companies or the like.

So, it's not 'that complicated' like you say, but it isn't 'so easy' like you say either. URC chose to err on the side of caution (channeling) and I think it's a good move.


That's an odd a statement, you're talking about two separate things at one time and confusing the issue. The removal of Live Update (software) and control of a product channel (saving us from ourselves) are two separate arguments in a larger debate. While it's confusing (the issue, as well as yourself), I think you're doing it on purpose to merely be argumentative. Sheer fallacy.

Bad Rich Guy. No soup for you!

Well, I don't agree it was best either, but what were they to do?

Take out ads in NY Times, on RC, your local Sunday paper?

Put out ads on FleaBay?

URC is the one that is confused. They are the ones who removed "Live Updates" from everyones software unless they bought "authorized" and that is the excuse Eric gives.

Remember I have all I need from URC I have the "good" software. I have also taken the programing coarse from URC's dealers site... did not learn anything I did not already know.

My difficulty scale was not based on remotes it was just a general scale. As for remotes I have worked with many programmable remotes, an MX 800 is the easiest remote I have ever worked with to program any kind of semi-complicated system meaning a home theater system not just a TV. Many things I buy to use on my computer have much more complicated software as well as much more to learn and they are intended for the novice. YES I agree some people want help and some people need help but MOST won't. Also URC's consumer line is far more difficult to program than their so called professional line... I agree that it is a professional line of remotes but professional help is not needed unless requested, just simple instructions.

I do not agree with URC's policy but that is not my beef here. URC can sell their remotes from whoever they choose that is clearly their choice. My beef is when they removed "Live Updates" and only allow a select few to have it back. Everyone who had it should have it back and every future buyer should be warned that they will not unless they follow this new policy. It's that simple, that is not hard to understand. Otherwise URC is not treating their previous purchasers fairly. This is my only beef and as I said I have the software and can get it for every model so I am not asking this for myself, but I want to feel URC is treating it's customers fairly or I don't want to be their customer again.


Good comparison URC has become the Soup "remote" Nazi.

LOL. That's funny.

i believe you missed my point in that the remotes do not "require" support or updates to work... they work just fine with the software given

Well, I can think of a reason, but CI's would probably take it the wrong way. :)

the remotes are not very hard to learn, most customers just dont want to take the time to learn it....plain and simple...alot of the DIY'ers on here are more then capable of programming these things...its just a matter of wanting to take the time

First, I did read the statement in context, as I was following the thread, and then I read it stand alone and I hope you see the logical fallacy. Stating it is harder to use a computer than program a remote that needs a computer to program it....funny.

And because you mention 14 year olds....yes everybody here who is incessantly whining about things they cannot control nor understand does strike me as teenagers. How can URC be concerned with perceived promises interpreted by a significant minority that insists on purchasing their products at whored out pricing?

Context...try reality.