Well, if you have power macros without discretes, you're going to need a different procedure everytime a command is not received by a device. It works for me, but it was no fun teaching it to the wife.

With discretes, you just keep pressing the same button until everything responds. Works even better for me, and she's not complaining either.

Discretes are the way to go. Apparently the folks at Universal Remote thought so, too, because they put two power buttons on the MX-500, and it's the reason people sell the remote with JP1 stuff.

The difference is night and day -- it's the difference between glueing all your old remotes to a board and having something that really integrates your devices into a system.

Don't forget that Mark was asking about IRClone. Nobody insisted Mark get a JP1; it was offered as an alternative to the clone. Compared to spending a hundred bucks on that, a twenty dollar JP1 remote offers a lot of bang for the buck -- even more in Mark's case, IMHO.

Mike, this is edited from a longer reply John Fine posted on hifi-remote:

*********************************

For each setup code the hex commands have a fixed length, usually 1 byte but sometimes 2 or more bytes.
[...]
A setup code is not "specifically designed to accept advanced codes." Every setup code accepts advanced codes and the setup codes with one_byte hex commands give easily predicatable results when advanced codes are used, while those with two (or more) byte hex commands give hard to predict results.

*******************************

I've asked him how common the multi-byte encoding is. That would include any scheme supporting more than 256 codes, plus any others where UEI elected to encode it that way for their own reasons.

This explains why you can usually generate any advanced code once you've got a working setup code.

Thanks for checking on that, cpurick. John Fine's the man on this subject. ;-)

I think I understand it now. I looked at some posts in the One for All forum, that also confirm that. Basically, it looks like you don't need the JP1 cable if the setup code is in your remote. The other caveat is if it's one of a certain group of setup codes that use the two byte hex, you may or may not be able to get a working command with an advanced code. Having a cable with a JP1-able remote will allow you to add a missing setup code.

This message was edited by MikeSRC on 10/29/03 12:37.

Yes, and you could also engineer single-byte versions of some multi-byte codes so you can "fake" some discretes.

Sadly, Tivo and ReplayTV use 2-byte commands. Those are some incredibly popular devices to be hobbled in that way, and for no good reason! Fortunately, newer remotes are starting to come with 1-byte versions of those codes.

Good points cpurick, but I've found that in most devices other than TIVO or TV, the Prev Channel button has no function so I put my TV power button there in the other devices for the very rare occasions when its power is out of sync with what I need when switching between my 8 devices. Other than that, I've run into no need for anything other than the basic MX-500 with its great macro capabilities (I use about 25 macros).

Maybe I'm just lucky in how my system is set up and the fact that I never run into macro commands not being received correctly by a device.

For me the whole JP-1 complexity is a little like that guy who worked out a very complex system and created a webpage for shortcuts for TIVO functions using FAV macros and using up a whole device for it where he had to reprogram a whole bunch of hard buttons to pull it off and somebody else pointed out a very simple and fast way to do pretty much the same thing without losing a whole device and without reprogramming a bunch of buttons.

This message was edited by trockman on 10/29/03 21:22.

I would agree that using the entire JP1 system is overkill for enabling discretes. However, using a cheap JP1 remote's advanced code capabilities to program discretes (bypassing the actual JP1 stuff) is the simplest, cheapest way to get discretes into your MX-500.

People spend hundreds of dollars to get that sort of capability -- tacking $17 onto the cost of an MX-500 is trivial compared to the alternatives.

I just want to make sure after all your discussions that the above & below are true.
I SHOULD get a JP1 type remote
And I SHOULD NOT need the JP1 cable and connector.

And just for good measure I want to be clear on which JP1 type remote I should get.

I was thinking about the URC-8811. But if you all think that there is something better or cheaper or easier to use out there, pleas let me know that too.

Mark

Mark, I for one don't like telling people what they "should" or "shouldn't" do. I'm not the one who has to live with the decision.

All I can do is describe the alternatives, and let you decide what to do. And I'm sure that's all any of the others want to do, too. You make the most-informed decision. We just provide information. That means you can't make the best decision unless you're reading and understanding what we're writing here -- not an easy task, I know.

Let me ask you a question: is $20 a significant sum of money in your household? Because we're only going to use the 8811 to make a subtle improvement to your MX-500. Nobody here can know your situation. But I can tell you that the worst-case scenario would be that you buy the 8811 and then it ends up being of no use, or maybe you can use it in your bedroom. An unlikely outcome, but possible.

And that's the worst case. So if you can take that outcome, then go ahead and buy the 8811, and we'll see what we can do to make the most of it.

On the bright side, the 8811 has an actual JP1 connector on it. So if it came down to it, I'd be willing to add any necessary upgrades -- though it's unlikely that you'll need one. That means you WON'T need to buy your own cable.

How far have you gotten with your MX-500? Are you picking everything up? Do you have any specific questions?

cpurick

Unfortunately I have not gotten to far. I think right now I am looking for some REAL good advise as to what remote I should get that will help me out the most with programming my MX-500. I don't care if it is JP1 or IRClone or some suggestion, I have never heard of. Money is an issue, but not that big of one. I just don't want to spend as much on my "supporting" remote as I did on my MX-500. $50 or more is OK if it will ease my pain

Mark

Mark, I see from your other thread that you have pioneer receiver, none the pioneer setup codes in the more recent OFA remotes accept advanced codes, like the URC-8810w. But the radio shack 15-2116 still has setup code AMP0013, which has a boat load of EFC's available. Just something think about.

Mark, looking up your devices, it seems that all of those manufacturers support discretes on some of their models except for your cable box.

For your cable box, you'll probably have to settle for a simple "power" (toggle) button. Some users with Motorola cable boxes report that they just leave the cable box on all the time (since it belongs to the cable company).

Unfortunately, a JP1 remote cannot access the power discretes for your Pioneer receiver unless someone adds the codes with a JP1 or learns them from another remote. I'm concerned that the Panasonic devices might have the same problem.

If you buy a JP1 remote, be sure to get at least the 8810/8811 or the RS 15-2116/2117. These models already have the JP1 interface installed.

I for one would not mind programming it for you if you decided to get it. There are no doubt others here who would also be willing to help.

cpurick

It is great to hear from you again.

On the cable box issue-I leave it on all the time anyway. But will I be able to program all the other functions that are on the Motorola remote i.e. All the guides and info screens?


Also against your wonderful advise, I did purchase the 8810w. I have not opened it yet. But it does seem that it could be of some help if I am reading you correctly.
I for one would not mind programming it for you if you decided to get it. There are no doubt others here who would also be willing to help.

Do you mean I would physically sent the remote(s) to you and you could program some codes or functions for me?
That would certainly be helpful.
Where do you live? (just curious)

Look forward from hearing from you
Mark

In the case of the pioneer, you don't have to spend $30 on the 2116, you could just get the 15-2103 from RS for $17. Using setup code AUX0013, the discrete ON is 247, OFF-251. These codes work for both my 14 year old VSX-D1S and my recently bought RS RCA(pioneer built) receivers. Afterward return the RS remote.:)

Your MX-500 can be programmed do everything your original remotes can do.

Discretes usually boil down to sending "special" commands to your devices that are not included on the original remote. In the case of your cable box, it seems Motorola did not program the box to do any commands beyond the ones on the remote.

Most of your other devices do support commands of that sort; usually separate "power on" and "power off" commands, and often some others.

Yes, if you mailed me your 8810w I would be happy to put some discretes in it. Then you could teach them to your MX-500. I would just want you to put enough postage in the box to cover the return shipping -- preferably a prepaid self-addressed label of some sort, like a UPS call tag. I am in Florida.

First though, you should set up your 8810w (a good choice, BTW) to control all your devices. That way I can look at the codes it's actually using, and it should give us a good idea of whether the discretes are coded in the same languages as those used by your devices.

tase2,

What remote codes do you want that you don't otherwise haon your existing set of remotes?

It sounds like your having an issue with MX-500 programming more than a deficit of codes.

IF you need codes that are not in the MX-500 library or the plethora of MXD files here, then MAYBE you want a JP1 remote or cable. Having one does not make programming the MX any easier. Having discretes make macros more efficient and you don't need the "state" of devices, but they may be available already.

Tim