I have a MX-800 with MRF-200 companion. When ever I have the MRF-200 on I have issues changing the volume. If I hold the volume up or down the volume starts to change, but if I reverse direction the volume stops and wont go the reverse direction, or sometimes if I quickly change from vol up to vol down the volume will continue to go up even though I am pressing down. I have to wait a three seconds and then can reverse the volume the other direction. I have the same problem even if I use the RF pads. If I do not use the MRF-200 then volume works fine both directions.

Any suggestions on what to try would be appreciated. I would ditch the MRF-200 but would like to be able to point the remote wherever and still have it work. Besides my wife sets it down to quickly when turning things on or off and they do not make discretes for my Cable box or VCR.

Dennis

Dennis,

I am assuming that the device you use to adjust volume is a surround sound reciever.

Try this process after you've checked that you are not getting any RF interference. This process checks to see if you are getting too much Infrared to the surround sound receiver. I've posted another message with instructions to test RF interference beleow.

Procedure to check for IR Overload:

1) In the RF Control Window (Program Menu Step #9), click on the Receiver button and turn off the Front Panel Blaster.

2) Set the Flasher to one of the six outputs for the surround sound receiver, then plug a flasher into that specific output (say #1).

3) Set the surround sound device to RF only.

4) Download to the MX-800.

5) Position the flasher about 3 feet away from the Surround Sound receiver, don't stick it anywhere.

6)Test the volume commands while moving the flasher to different test positions.

Feel free to call me when you are doing this. I would be glad to help.

Best Regards,

-Eric

Eric Johnson
www.hometheaterpro.com

Phone 1-800-247-7001


This message was edited by Eric Johnson on 09/16/03 14:52.

Deleted.

This message was edited by Eric Johnson on 09/16/03 14:55.

Dennis,

We have some other ideas for you to try first after discussions at the factory. You may have some RF interference created by the proximity of the MRF-200 base station to one of your components.

Before you do any other testing, try this:

1. Plug in the MRF-200 but not the emitters. Leave enough slack in the power cable so that you can try positioning the base station itself away from the component stack.

2. Observing the Base Station's Status LED ONLY (not the components), press and hold a button with a single IR command in it (like the Volume Down button). When the button is pressed, the LED should light. When the button is RELEASED, the LED should instantly go out! If the LED flickers after release, you are getting interference. Move the base station or re-orient the antenna, so that the LED goes on and off perfectly.

Then refer to my suggestions above for infrared overload.

Feel free to call me anytime. I would be glad to help you.

Best Regards,

-Eric

Eric Johnson
www.hometheaterpro.com

Phone 1-800-247-7001

2.

This message was edited by Eric Johnson on 09/16/03 14:55.

Eric,

Thanks for the quick response and ideas. Here are the results of the my tests.

You were correct the sound is from an AVR (Harman Kardon AVR 520)

I had my MRF-200 about 17 feet away from my components when I originally set it up and from that distance with the settings you suggested in your last post it appeared that the status light would light and then go off almost immediately but yet the volume still was not working properly. It would either do fine in one direction like volume down but one of two things would happen when I tried to change from vol down to vol up, it would either stop and not work at all or the vol would continue going down even though I was pressing vol up.

So I then move the base around and took it about 5 feet in front of my components and tried your next test using the only the MRF-200 and no emitters and tested moving it around pressing the volume. I must have a lot of interference from something because there were some spots that the status light would be on and blinking even though I was not even pressing the volume. I could not find a good spot where it responded instantly. Almost all locations there would be lingering blinking on the status after I let go of the vol button.

I assume that even with an emmiter plugged in that the interferance at the base would still cause a problem?

Here are the components in the same room to help possibly identify the problem.

1. Linksys WRT54G Wireless Switch that I use for internet access. It is 802.11b and 802.11g and operates at 2.4GHz.

2. Uniden Cordless phone base is about 20 feet away from the entertainment center and operates at 5.8GHz.

3. Celing fan that is currently off but has a remote control for it. I was not using the fan during my tests so doubt this could be the culprit.

Since I was getting interferance at the MRF-200 even at 15 feet away from my entertainment unit, do you think it could be one of my components?

Not sure what else to try. What hours are you available if I was to call? I am in California PST.

Dennis

UPDATE

Eric,

I changed the base channel to from 1 to 3 and no help, but changed to channel A and was able to find a spot where the base seemed not to have any interferance. I then plugged in an emmiter to port 1 and held it 3 feet away. I was finally able to turn the volume up using RF but still was not able to reverse directions. I tested pressing vol up then stopping couting one second and pressing vol down. Nothing happened when I pressed vol down. So did the same test but paused for 2 seconds and it worked. So if I wait 2 seconds I can then reverse volume.

This of course is still too long, and I finally understand now why none of my macros work in RF but do work in IR only. In RF only one component will respond and turn on or off depending on the macro and I bet if I put 2 seconds delay between each command it would probably work in RF.

For a test, I powered off my telephone and wireless linksys switch and still had the same results. My neighbor has a Linksys switch that runs at 900Mhz. I know this because sometimes my laptop picks up his network when I am in this room so maybe that is interferring.

What does not make sense is that even when the base seems to respond with no ligering lights after letting go of the vol button, it still does not seem to want to work.

Not sure what to try next.

Dennis

Sorry you are having problems, I wish you had called me. Part of your problem is that I wrote the troubleshooting procedure backwards. I apologize, I talk to people all day about this and sometimes when I write it down, it comes out in the wrong order.

1) set each device to RF Only

2) assign each device a particular Flasher Output. Take note of which, but do not connect the Flashers.

3) Click on the Receiver button and Turn the Front Panel Blaster OFF.

4) Download to the MX-800

5) Position the MRF-200 base station by observing the status LED, it should light when a button is pressed, and go out instantly when the button is released.

Your a/v components ARE creating the interference, not the fan, the network or the phone. Digital cable boxes, HDTV set top boxes, satellite receivers and Tivo/Replay components all have high speed microprocessors which interfere with low power RF from remote controls.

Generally speaking, the MRF-200 base station should be positioned at least 3 feet away from any of these components.

6) Connect one flasher to the appropriate flasher port for one of your components according to your notes. Position the flasher about 3 feet away from the component, don't stick it anywhere.

7)Test commands for that particular component while moving the flasher to different test positions.

8) When the position gives 10 out of 10 commands good operation, stick the flasher in place.

9)Repeat steps 6-8 untill all components are working.

Finally, don't try this for more than 5 minutes without success. You have suffered enough, give me a call.

Best Regards,

-Eric

Eric Johnson
www.hometheaterpro.com

Phone 1-800-247-7001

Eric,

I am on a crazy schedule right now because I work nights. I usually cannot call till around 4pm-4am hehe so anyway, here are my results from my 1am test.

I tried your suggestion and still am getting a ton of interferrance. I turned everything to RF only and disabled RF blaster. I could only find one place in the room where there was no interferance (about 8 feet away from my devices and on the floor) In some spots I had the status light on constantly even though I was not pressing anything on the remote. Closer to my components seems to be the worst, but I tried 20 feet away from my components and still had the same results.

I think I had a breakthrough, once I found a spot where there was no interferance I was able to see that I am only having trouble with my Surround Sound receiver, all of the other components I can control fine. But when I change the volume (the only time I use the AVR) I have the same issues, where I can go up or down but cannot swith directions unless I wait 1 full second.

So everything else seems to be work great as long as the base in the sweet spot, but my Harman Kardon AVR 520 just wont have it. Not sure why, because it works fine on IR mode, and if I understand correctly the way we setup the test, the RF is only between the remote and MRF-200 base, then it send IR through port1 and out the emmitter? So in theory if it works in IR then it should work using an emmitter. I have the HK AVR 520 set for RF only as well as all of my components, I have IR blaster off on the MRF-200, and I have the AVR 520 on port 1 with an emmitter.

I first tried all of my components on their own emitter and they all worked fine except the AVR 520 surround sound receiver. I then used one emitter and set all devices to use it. Still all components (cable box, DVD, VCR, TV) worked perfectly but still the AVR 520 would only work if I gave it a 1 or 2 second delay between presses.

Maybe the IR strength out of the emitters is weaker than the IR strength from the remote? As long as the remote is pointed in the general direction of the AVR 520 the volume works great so I know the IR receiver is working ok.

I appreciate your time in answering and helping me through this.

Dennis

Steve,

I had a thought. My Harman Kardon has an Remote IR Input, do these emmiters that came with the MRF-200 accept input? Maybe I could plug one of these into the back of the AVR to test another IR input. Or better yet do they make a cable that I can plug from the back of the MRF-200 directly to the back of the AVR?

I do enjoy having the MRF-200 across the room hidden next to my rear speakers and using the RF blaster, it works great for all other devices and I do not have any black emitter cables to look at on my components. So maybe purchasing a better IR receiver to set on top of my AVR would work or a very long (30 feet) cable to plug from MRF-200 to the back of the AVR.

Dennis

You have to proceed to positioning emitters after you find the RF sweet spot. Fix one problem, then the other. You had both problems. Now you have one. The emitter is not too weak, it is too strong when positioned in the spot you have it.

Call me. It's ok if it's night time.

-Eric

1-800-247-7001

I have the exact same problem with the HK-520 as described by Dennis. In may case, there is absolutely no interference. The problem manifests itself in two ways:

i) The audio acts exactly as described by Dennis. One cannot quickly change the vol from up to down and vice versa. It requires one to two seconds delay before it can be changed. In IR only there is no such problem.

ii) The macros to turn on or off the HK and a monitor will not function properly if the monitor is turned on (off) first, but will function if the HK command is first.

The monitor is programmed to IR only, all other devices are programmed to RF only and the MRF IR blaster is off.

With all other devices (Cable STB, DISH STB) things seem to work well and commands can be issued at a rapid rate. I also observed that with IR only operation, if I cover the IR lense and then push the vol up (or down) and then uncover the lense, even though the vol up is pushed (and IR commands are sent out), the HK receiver does not respond. My hunch is that there is some "memory effect" in the MRF200 from the previous command and the HK is sensitive to it. Eric suggested IR saturation in the HK (that can create this "memory effect") but I doubt it since I put an Mx-700 IR head right on top of the HK IR lense (the same place where I stuck the IR blaster) and it performed very well. But I'll try it out anyway by moving the blaster some distance away.

Please call. You have two problems, RF interference and IR saturation, putting the remote up to the window is not a valid test. You have to solve RF interference by repositioning with ALL of your components on. Then you route the IR to the HK, then check IR.

Best Regards,

-Eric

Eric Johnson
www.hometheaterpro.com

Phone 1-800-247-7001

After testing the set-up tonight I am convinced that there is no IR saturation of the HK-520 and the problem is due to a combination of the MRF200 response time combined with a certain sensitivity of the HK-520 receiver. To test saturation I moved the flasher to around 10 ft away from the receiver and covered it until I got no receiver response. I then uncovered it in stages just until I got receiver response. Again the volume control behaved as before without any change. I am certain that I have no interference from any source (I kept all other devices off, and there has been no unwarranted flashes from the MRF200). I am an EE with over 30 years of digital, RF and communications systems and devices experience, so I feel at this stage I have a pretty good intuition for electronics systems (even though I have not dealt with IR devices and remote control codes).

There is a tenth of a second delay when switching from Volume Up to Volume Down via RF, not a two second delay. RF interference will create the kind of symptom you are experiencing and IR positioning will not cure it if this is the case. In some homes, there is an external source of interference, so turning off your gear is not a good test. Repositioning the receiver and reorienting the antenna is better.

Feel free to call me, I am not an EE, but I have helped many people solve this issue with the HK in particular.

-Eric

This message was edited by Eric Johnson on 09/27/03 16:08.

Hi Eric,

I finally removed the IR from the equation by connecting the MRF directly to the HK IR-in in the back of the receiver. The symptom is identical without IR as is with the IR flasher. I double checked for RF interference by powering off everything except for the HK receiver. I even shielded the MRF and moved it around. It does not guarantee no RF interference, but it was RF interference problem it should have exhibited somewhat different behavior in the different configurations. My observation was a very consisten behavior without any indication of RF interference (The MRF will light only when I push the volume button on the remote). One needs approximately (0.5-1) sec of delay if you want to issue two successive commands (such as volume up and down or even volume up, and volume up again) and have the HK respond consistently. If you do not have the delay, in most cases the HK will not detect the second command. As I suggested before, I suspect the problem is related to the response time of the MRF combined with more stringent requirements of the HK.

One note: I could not find in RadioShack (or elsewhere) a 2.5 to 3.5 mm phono adaptor. The adaptors in RadioShack do not have the profile that allows them to make good connection whan one plugs it into the MRF200. Also, you need to reverse the polarity of the wire. It seems like HTM wants you to buy their flashers. I had to sacrifice one flasher to perform my test.