I was looking at the 880 and SONY RM-AX4000 to replace my HR659. Based on the number of topics here and on the SONY forum I would guess that the 880 is outselling the SONY significantly.

Has anyone tried both? Other than color and easy upgrade from the 659 (two compelling reasons) does anyone find functionality on the 4000 exceeding the 880? The salesperson in the CC store knew the 659 and could demo it but tripped all over the 4000.

One of the obvious differences is the amount of hard buttons vs. touch screen. I've tried a few touch screen remotes and the lack of tactile feel for screen buttons was always an issue. Also consider the form factor. The Sony isn't exactly a one handed affair.

As well, I don't know if the Sony AX4000 really does keep the status of devices in memory when switch between activities (Express). The manual does say so but it needs to be tried. Same for the "All Off" function.

Someone just posted that it does do that on the Sony forum.

[Link: remotecentral.com]

From what I've read on Sony's they are great learning remotes...rarely not being able to copy a command. However, they don't have the best databases of equipment so they aren't a good choice if you don't have your original remote or if you aren't the patient type (takes a long time to program a remote through learning.)

Thanks for the input folks! I'm researching and staying with the 659 until I get a better feel. I'm reading a lot of nits with both devices. On the SONY forum some people are claiming they had to "learn" nearly all of the functions. I can't believe that, unless you have all old or obscure brand equipment, that most modern (up tp 10 years old) equipment wouldn't be in a database.

I also get the feeling that the Sony ships with a fixed IR database in ROM and can't really be updated except by learning. The Harmony database stays current as people add new devices (and has the intelligence to make some educated guesses about new equipment).

Therefore owners of very new euqipment might find themselves learning quite a bit into the Sony.

FWIW: I've had the Harmony 880 for about a week, replacing a Sony RM-AV3000, and I wouldn't go back for anything. The referenced thread sounds like the AX4000 solves a couple of the 3000's worst problems, but hardly all of them. In particular, the Sony's touch screen sounds cool if you've never used it, but in reality it sucks: the soft buttons are barely as large as your own finger and you never feel comfortable that you're pressing what you intend. Now the 880's buttons are even more on the small side --- but I never have any doubt whether I'm pressing what I wanted, because the buttons are sculpted so you can feel whether you are on center or not. The Sony's touch screen is a vast wasteland with no tactile boundaries :-( There are various other unpleasantries in use, such as a nonintuitive method for switching between sets of soft buttons for a particular device (ie, why would you press THAT to do this?) In general, the Harmony just gives off the impression of being designed by people who had a clue about user interface design, while the Sony 3000 gives off the opposite impression. Maybe the 4000 fixes all that, but I don't get that from the referenced thread. It sounds to me like Sony fixed the really *killer* problem of the 3000, namely that it has no computer connectivity at all, but they did not do anything about its crummy ergonomics.

Has anyone figured how you can delete or change the order of the component labels on the Sony RM-AX 4000? I have just four components and it's really annoying to have to shift to other pages to get, for example from TV to Receiver. (I want to be able to control volume of both without having to jump around.) Incidentally, I've just about given up trying to program via the computer. It's virtually impossible to get it right. For example, it doesn't recognize my Pioneer Receiver head to head so I have to program one button at a time. Unfortunately, there are some buttons it just won't recognize so receiver control is virtually useless. At least, the receiver does work (most of it, anyway) when you forsake the computer and enter a four digit code through the Preset function.

Frankly, I think it's one lousy product. Unfortunately, I'm stuck with it.

Wrong forum - This is the Harmony forum, there are separate Sony universal remote forums on this boars. Not that won't help you - we just don't know this remote in general.