Touche' ;-)

When the US does nothing, the world screams for us to act. When we act, the world screams because the outcome isn't what they would like. The US reaches out its hand to help more countries in this world than any other, as soon as the ones we are helping take the money/food/whatever out of that hand, they slap it away.

Maybe the best thin would be to pull every one of our soldiers out of every country in the world, deny any help but to ourselves, and watch what happens. Do you think the world would be cheering or crying?

Sorry for the rant, but I just get tired of getting slapped.

Hi Diesel
Most of the world this time asked the US(and UK) not to act in Iraq but wait till the full facts were known.


I agree with the helping hand and being slapped or the fact that the governments of the peoples we are trying to help are spending money on other things such as weapons

Take India for example

India still has the world’s largest number of poor people in a single country. Of its nearly 1 billion inhabitants, an estimated 350-400 million are below the poverty line, 75 per cent of them in the rural areas.


More than 40 per cent of the population is illiterate, with women, tribal and scheduled castes particularly affected.


It would be incorrect to say that all poverty reduction programmes have failed. The growth of the middle class (which was virtually non-existent when India became a free nation in August 1947) indicates that economic prosperity has indeed been very impressive in India, but the DISTRIBUTION OF WEALTH has been very uneven.


The main causes of poverty are illiteracy, a population growth rate by far exceeding the economic growth rate for the better part of the past 50 years, protectionist policies pursued since 1947 to 1991 which prevented large amounts of foreign investment in the country.

But hey India can still afford to spend on weapons in 2001
Russia sold India a large package of weapons reportedly worth $8 billion. The Russian weapons deal includes 140 Sukhoi SU-30 strike fighters(built under licence), 300 T-90 battle tanks, and a pledge to build a new 2,000-megawatt nuclear reactor at Kundankulam, Tamil Nadu.

$8 billion sure feeds a lot of crying fly infested skinny kids on appeal adverts.

A lot of nations suffer from natural disasters; I’m not talking about freak tidal waves but predictable yearly events. At the age of three I was taught the song the wise man builds his house upon the rocks. Some countries have built there houses and cities to withstand such natural disasters such as Japan against earthquakes guess what Japan has a smaller military than India. The annual monsoon rains that sweep the Indian subcontinent from June to September routinely kill hundreds of people in India and cause widespread devastation. $8 Billion well spent on military equipment? I don't think so!

Oh and in the news today...3/8/05

The families of the 52 victims killed in the July 7 bomb attacks will be eligible for just £11,000 each under a Government-funded compensation scheme.

By contrast, each death claim made to the US Government by families of the September 11 victims was worth around £1.13m.

Families of London victims will have to apply to the Criminal Injuries Compensation Scheme, which pays out to victims of crime.

If more than one family member of a 7 July victim applies for compensation they will only get £5,500 each.

People will also be entitled to "reasonable" extra payments to cover funeral costs, while dependent children are entitled to £2,000 a year until they turn 18.

Under the scheme, a maximum figure of £500,000 can be paid to survivors who are seriously debilitated and claim for loss of earnings and care costs as well as compensation.

The scheme has existed since 1964 and is run in England, Scotland and Wales by the Criminal Injuries Compensation Authority and is funded by the Home Office.

Supporters of the scheme argue that the sum given to victims' families should not be seen as the value of a life but as a "token of public sympathy".

But victims' groups have condemned the level of compensation as "a pittance".

A spokesman for the Victims of Crime Trust said: "Families should be given probably 100 times as much because, let's face it, they have to live with this tragedy for the entirety of their lives. It has to be more than £11,000.

"This is only supposed to be a token but it should be more than a token."

This message was edited by Mr Griffiths on 08/03/05 12:04 ET.

diesel: no one is slapping, it is a simple discussion. I have many friends and family that live in the US, it is not an anti US move, and maybe it is the familiarity that lets me feel so free to be honest with my opinion. I don't think every move of the US is smart and don't think all of them are dumb, I don't think all the people in the US are dumb nor all of them are smart, I also think that smart people do dumb moves and dumb people do smart ones and what differentiates a smart person from a dumb one is a matter of percentages. And you know what, I feel the same way for all people and all countries.

It just so happens I feel this one decision was dumb and somehow it ends up coming back into the conversation since it is still in the news.

Like Marky, I don't come here to bother or fight with people, I come here to learn and have some fun. I also enjoy a good discussion and debate which is why I have been continuing the discussion since I felt . But I don't come here to annoy people, and if it annoys you that much ask and I will stop discussing it.


As to your foreign policy. I think it is reactionary, and don’t think reactionary ideas are ever the right ones. And think that it would be just as wrong as the war on Iraq

Anthony. When I said I was tired of getting slapped, I didn't mean by the people here, it's pretty easy to have discussions here. I'm talking about the world as a whole. I know the US isn't perfect, but sometimes it feels as though we get taken advantage of way too much.

I don't think the world is slapping the US. I tink there are severl factors at play

1) the US is like a movie star, it gives them the platform to say what they will because they are well known, but at the same time it means there are paparazzi waiting to take pics of them at their worst. Let me ask you, for how many countries do you know the type of government or the leader of state or government? I have seen Canadians say "Most Canadians know GWB is the President of the US, how come they don't know the PM of Canada?" instead of answering I ask them the leader of some other country not in the news. when they cannot answer I ask them why they don't know who it is and then why should all Americans know what is happening here.

2) GWB is arrogant as hell, with comments like " those not with us, are against us" it is hard to gather sympathy, so when there is mud on the face, it is a guilty pleasure to point it out.

3) the US portrays itself as the best, the most righteous.... Because of that it makes it more interesting to point the faults. For example every time the US goes to war it talks about bringing democracy and stuff, but GWB was involved in an electoral scandal, when the democratic UN decided that war on Iraq was not needed, they decided the democracy of UN was not important and GWB decided he was king of the world.....


do I think the world is slapping the face of the US? no, if it appears to some that way, it might be the media there. Do I think the world supports unilaterally what the US does? No, but don’t think it should, also don’t think all Americans should support unilaterally what their government does and the same is true for Canadians and the rest of the world. On the other hand I never joined a political party because I find they all have good and bad ideas and feel we should all question ideas we think are bad and praise ideas that are good no matter where they come from.

Sad News about Robin Cook Whatever you thought of his politics,I always admired him for sticking to his beliefs and resigning from the cabinet over the Iraq invasion,unlike other members.

50 years from now, historians will judge who was right in this argument. I won't be around, but if I could collect on a bet, I would put my money on President Bush being right in the actions he took. The ONLY thing those nuts in Iraq understand is force. They won't stop even if we do. We have to exterminate them, or we will be the ones exterminated.

OK... I've been biting my tongue for a while now. :)

[Link: msnbc.msn.com]

[Link: suntimes.com]

And we would believe he didn't have WMD why? Given the time from ultimatum to reaching Baghdad, could he have had them and moved them? Was there sufficient time? Were they sufficiently portable? Beyond the WMD question, I think the biggest mistake the US made was not pushing to Baghdad in the first Gulf War. Odd how the U.S. should feel guilty for going to war (Iraq) and for not (Rowanda). In both places, there was needless death of innocents and massive "human rights" violations.

I would bet that you don't know any historians. :) my bet is some will say it was the right move and others it was a dumb one.


no offence but do you know how insane that sounds what do you think you are fighting? the Daleks?

no offense taken, and I respect your opinion, but the way I see it is that we are fighting fanatics who fly hijacked planes into buildings and strap bombs to themselves and blow up innocent people because they think that if they do, 11 virgins are waiting for them in paradise. Call them what you will, but reality is that they are subhuman terrorist monsters bent on the destruction of anyone who doesn't share their misguided religious beliefs. We are trying to keep the dirty bomb from going off over here by keeping them on the run. But whichever country falls asleep at the wheel, so to speak, will sooner or later experience a tragedy worse than our 9/11, unless we get to them first, which is highly unlikely due to the politics surrounding our involvement in trying to bring peace, order and freedom to an oppressed people.

But that's just my opinion, and I could be wrong.

That wasn't very nice to say goodnf, you might offend a terrorist out there and then it will be your fault the next time one of them blows up a subway. Maybe if all us unenlightened imperialist swine in the west just killed ourselves we could save the world a whole bunch of headache, plus then we could appease the terrorists which should be our number one goal.

I mean its our fault they exist in the first place. Our policies forced Saddam Hussein to torture, rape and gas his own people(not sure with what since he never had WMD's), plus if you really think about it, did the World Trade Center really have to be so big. Why can't we just be humble about our wealth and not always shove in the face of the little guy. Man, I am feeling really guilty about being so free. I think I'm gonna go protest or something to make up for all the stuff my country did to people 200 hundred years ago. I think congress should apologize again, it would make it all better.

I can't believe Britain is actually deporting people for talking about killing British citizens, come on people, what about their civil rights? Its a cold day in hell when you can't talk about blowing up a bunch of innocent people on a bus without getting in trouble for it. This world is going to crap, and its all Bush's fault.

You're right. I should be ashamed of myself for being selfish enough to want to continue to live in a free country like ours. Pardon me while I phone my son and daughter-in-law, who are both U.S. Navy pilots risking their lives to protect our freedom and the freedom of others, and tell them to stop terrorizing those poor Al Qaeda freedom fighters so they can go on and please Allah by killing those of us who are undeserving of this extravagent life that we live here in America.

After all - talk and appeasement worked so well with Hitler. Oh wait...

You know when you start arguing with your wife about cutting the Lawn she says it needs to be cut but you wont because the grass is still wet(or thats what you think the argument is about) and then she starts coming up with stuff that happened years ago that you had forgot about and it blows up into a muddled mess and you feel what the hell was that about.
Well i think thats what the world is like, simple logic doesnt seem to work it out.
We all (all sides of the argument) want the SAME end results but we end up drawing on baggage ,bias, stubbornus and bravado which gets in the way.
Only when BOTH sides concede just a little can the argument be resolved (isnt the kissing and making up just the best!)thats easy when you love your wife and she loves you but extremely hard when the argument is with two or more parties that have hated each other for generations.

Ps this thread started off with President Bush riding his bike into a policeman! just goes to prove my point.

This message was edited by Mr Griffiths on 08/24/05 08:53 ET.