just out of curiosity, did you actually go to Iraq? it is easy being an armchair fighter


funny, time and time again it has been proven that it does not work

what ended up being the demise of the IRA, all those years of extreme fighting, or when the olive branch was shown to them and discussions started?



the problem is that it is true for most people

Are you suggesting we should? I never quite understood the point of giving an example of inaction for the reason we should not act. Whether or not the reasons for going into Iraq are palatable for everyone, I think one is being naive if they think we are the only reasons these people are trying to kill us. Are the jews to blame for what happened to them in WWII? Or were they used by a deranged lunatic to take over Europe? You ever stop to think why the terrorists are so adamant that Iraq's new government is unsuccesful?

There have been bombings, hijackings and terrorist murders(read Israeli Olympic Weightlifters) long before Operation Iragi Freedom, so it obviously can't be there only justification for those acts.

Why don't you ask yourself how come none of the suicide bombers are over 30? Maybe because young adults are very susceptible to religious dogma, especially uneducated, poor young adults, and the older psychos in charge of these kids are too smart to kill themselves? And before you drop an analogy on me about how we do the same things with out soldiers, I served in Bosnia for 2 tours and many of my superiors were much older than I was, and were just as suseptible to the many land mines still in that country. Just like we have lost many higher ranked and older soldiers in Iraq. We don't just send eighteen year olds to go kill themselves.

I'll get off my soapbox now.

I don't think he is


easy because that was not what was done.

if "WMD and bad leaders" is enough to warrant an attack then logic demands that NK be also attacked. The question then becomes why isn't NK attacked and the answer is the premise "WMD and bad leaders" is enough must be wrong, and so then the question becomes what other reasons were there?



who is blaming? The question is did the war in Iraq stop terrorism? the answer is not. Did it stop Islamic terrorism? the answer is no. Could it have? the answer is no.


I don't think anyone said that? But maybe an example might help. Let's say Daniel has a RC party and we all attend. Let's say you hold a grudge (and this really bothers you) and when I come and introduce myself you hate me for my position and so start screaming at me. Now let's say I get annoyed and decide to slap you a few times and tell you to shut up. What will happen? You will probably get more annoyed, hate me more and start fighting back harder, and things escalate. On the other hand if I say hey Hoop let's put this behind us, let's go to the bar I will buy you a beer. What will happen? you might think "hey maybe that anthony guy is not that bad"

One way made the situation worst the other made stuff better.

Do you really think through bombing a country you can kill all terrorists? You don't think the families of people that died in this war might feel a bit more anger and animosity? You don't think they would be more easily convinced on the "evilness" of the US no matter how dumb it is? But I guess it is as easy as convincing Americans that the war in Iraq was justified for the possibility of giving WMDs to terrorists, even though all the proof was to the contrary, not to mention that even after the fact when it has been proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that there were no links between terrorists and Iraq or WMDs in Iraq, some people still believe that it was justified.

Huh? There are no terrorists in Iraq? Well, there we go, i have been proven wrong. There are no terrorists in Iraq everybody. Everybody blowin themselves up is a figment of our imagination.

Was the ultimate goal of Operation Iraqi Freedom ever to stop all terrorism? I don't think so? Maybe as a stepping stone to stop terrorism in the long run, but I don't think anybody excluding yourself thinks that Operation Iraqi Freedom's mission is to end all terrorsim in the whole world from now until eternity.

I guess most people can't seperate themselves from the fact that we aren't fighting soldiers, or freedom fighters or whatever. These people are doing what they are doing because of an idealogy and a general hate and mistrust for the West. I personally do not think any form of "lets just sit down and talk about our differences" is gonna work. I admit I could be wrong.

Where these people blowing things up in Iraq before the US intervention? If not and they are now, then it proves exactly the opposite of what it was supposed to do, it increased terrorism in the world instead of stopping it. Exactly what I, and others have been saying all this time. And it proves what a dumb move it was

Well pilgram(is that a John Wayne reference?)
I just wish our administration could use such a level and reasoned approach as opposed to attacking and looting an Islamic country that had no connection to 9/11.

America has killed alot of innocent people in this quagmire, US soldiers and Iraqi civilians. All that and diverted our attention from the real perps in Afganistan.

And where the hell is that $8.8 billion that has gone missing?

This thread is getting too political and serious. I thought I told y'all to limit the seriousness in the Intermission section. I don't like the tone of you fonts.

Yes it is. Thats what my dad use to call me when I was growing up.

We didn't go into Iraq because of 9/11. Although that probably did 'spur' the resulting efect of Saddams unwillingness to comply to the UN mandates that he has 'side-stepped' for so many years.

Saddam killed more Iraqi civillians than we ever will!
Most of the 'innocent victims' we have killed had a bomb strapped to there back, or an AK-47 clutched in there arms!
My heart goes out to the soldiers. Thank you!


I would almost agree with that statement but, they are all in Iraq now.

Probably in France with the 'oil for food' money!

This message was edited by pilgram on 07/31/05 00:44 ET.

Just for the record.

My political views in no way effects the respect I have towards your knowledge of what this site is really about!

Electronics has a cut and dried answer.

Politics is based on opinion.

Go tell that to the cable gurus.

djy:Marky_Mark896 asked us to keep it cool, talking about lives and stuff is one thing, and it looks like we all agree we are adult enough not to let it turn ugly. I have yet to see a cable thread that does not

Bin Laden's in Iraq?

Two separate issues my friend. $8.8 billion of the money earmarked for Iraqi reconstruction is "unaccounted for" from medal of freedom winner Paul Bremer's time in charge.

Sorry MarkyM, I will cool it now.

What a little devil I am.

well it is up to the UN to enforce its laws. Also considering there were no WMDs to be found there is no proof, even today, that he side-stepped anything is there.

On the other hand by attacking Iraq there is proof some countries are willing to side-step UN rules

But did he know there was no proof to side step?