The "largest single electronics store" thing caught my attention.

The bottom line is that I want to program it to save the money. It makes the system a lot more affordable if I can program it myself.

Control4 should offer the program to the customer if they wish to take on the project themselves. If I don't get the sofwtare I will look elsewhere and spend the money somewhere else. If I don't get the software from Control4 then it is their loss. What would Control4 gain by not giving out the software??? Nothing, just a loss from the hardware.

If I bought the hardware and programmed it myself (at my own risk, no techincal support from them) it would be free advertising for them. Everythime somebody comes over I can advertise their system. My point is what percentage of USA has heard of Control4, 0.1%!!!

I like the system and the hardware seems very competive too a moderate system, but the programming makes it an expensive project for my budget.

The whole point hear is that you can't always get what you want. If the system (in working condition) is not in your budget than it's not in your budget. If you buy a new car, you don't get the shop manual with your car. You get an owners manual. The shop manual, ie what mechanics use cost hundreds.

Most CI in our industry retain the rights to their software because that is what keeps them in business. I have been through this with customers who wanted Control4 because they thought it was super affordable, after programming they realized otherwise, however, I was still able to get them a system with different products that fit their needs and their budgets.

Don't get upset with integrators who abide by their established policy. These policys are what protect their clients and garuntee they (the reputable ones) give you the best service. At the same time, with the rates we charge, it's also to sasure that we will continue to be in business to service our clients in the future.

tpinfo4,

Maybe you should also check out these forums:

[Link: mdaoe.com]
http://www.c4forums.com/

The first one is more DIY members, the second is more pros .
You may also want to email Jim Gist at C4 and tell him your problem: [email protected]

BTW, wht are you reluctant to name the "largest single electronics store" ?

I don't want to bad mouth any dealers, that is why.

Thanks for the forums, I will check them out.

BTW, supposedly C4 is going to soon have software designed specifically for the customer to use that would allow them to make "some" changes to their systems such as lighting scenes etc . BUT, you can't add any new equipment to the system, only the dealers can do that .

What other system are you goiing to get that will give you the software to do it yourself? Crestron? Nope. AMX? Nope. Elan? Nope.

You can cobble together some kind of DIY system with a PC and some software like CQC, but you won't be getting the same thing.

Can you do it? More than likely. Is the manufacturer going to care if you go elsewhere? Probably not.

C4 is currently selling a custom install dealer product. Maybe it will go to mass market retailers. If that happens, maybe you can get the software.

The only way I can see you havng a legit bitch is if the dealer told you you could have the software and then reneged after you bought the equipment.

My C4 jacket is *still* working perfectly without any additional dealer-supplied software...

What is a "Jacket"?

whoever replies I'm sure it will be priceless..........

A great point, and one I missed in all the back & forth here.

jack·et
n.

1. A short coat usually extending to the hips.
2. An outer covering or casing, especially:
1. The skin of a potato.
2. The dust jacket of a book or phonograph record.
3. An insulation covering for a steam pipe, wire, boiler, or similar part.
4. An open envelope or folder for filing papers.
5. The outer metal shell or case of a bullet.

You guys are pretty funny!!! I thought we were out of junior high? Back to the topic, please.

Actually Barry highly recommends the Control4 jacket he received and claims that it has worked flawlessly out of the box.

Have you called Control4? I had a client some time ago who wanted to program his own AMX system so AMX allowed him to go through traing down in Dallas. If you were willing to travel to Utah you may be able to go through a training session.. The problem with end users programming their own EQ is how to handle warranty and liability issues. If you try to make a light switch do something it really wasn't meant to do (such as mimic a strobe light for an upcomming disco party you are planning), who is ultimately liable for that switches failure?

I have read on other forums that people have got control over the software, how I don't know but I'm sure it is possible.

Know one has answerd my initial question if you really need a password to logon to the software?