Does anybody know how I can program this myself? My local Dealer will sell me the equipment but will not give me the software. Why can I buy the equipment but not the software?

toiletpaperinfo4, he might just be protecting his own, ask him.

HaHaHaHa!

He didn't mean for that, did he?

OR it's Moe's BBQ playing toilet games again...

I asked him again today and he told me that even if he gave me the software I needed a Dealer Account, User Id and password to get into the software? Is this true?

So is C4 a CI or DIY line?

Best or worse of both worlds?

I predict marketing and tech support are both going to be "complicated"...

Anybody?

Na, I don't have that much time on my hands. :)

Yes, this is true. Why not just have him do the programming and get it over with?

It's not horribly complicated but there are enough quirks that you'll spend days doing what he could have done in a couple hours at the most.

It's a big job. 8 zones of Audio and Video. I'm not going to pay the company $10,000 for programming.

You should have just bought a brick, or one of those home theater PC's...

You also could have bought all of the studs and sheetrock and built the house yourself, actually probably would be easier to do than the programming, you also could have bought the shingles and did the roofing yourself, you are after all paying alot of money for the materials, why didn't the roofers do it for free? The plumbing fixtures are probably a huge pain in your ass, how much were those? The general contractor should have done his job for free seeing that he had the privelidge(?) to work on your project..

Sorry , I'm really not trying to be rude but you'll have to forgive us for not helping you side step the dealer.
Over the last few years we (custom installers) have watched the products and technologies that we invested money and time in use us as a stepping stone to the DIY market. Most of these products would not have made it to the consumer market place if we had not carried them through the rough times of start up.
Control4 is no different. Of the first 5 or 6 jobs we installed we had the following bad parts.
4. media controllers
1. Home theater controller
5 0r 6 system remotes
1. 10.5 in. touch screen
several light dimmers
4. 16 channel amps had bad fans and I repaired them myself with fans sent by C4
Control4 (like almost all other lines we deal with) did not cover the labor to trouble shoot and remove/reinstall the bad products. They also did not cover the cost of return shipping of the product. Like we had to do with other products before them, we took the loss.
With that said, I LOVE the C4 product and will use it until, like almost every thing else we suffer through, they slap us across the face by selling direct to the public on a large scale.
Truth is, the dealer should never have agreed to sell you the product without doing the installation and programming.
If you feel his price is out of line then shop him with another dealer in your area. If you want to see what a great deal C4 is just find another product that compares to it's features and compare those quotes. I think you'll find that C4 is a bargain.

Well TP, $10,000 would be a great deposit to get me started on programming your big system.

I figure that $10K should get your system a basic program and cover around 4-6 weeks of general trouble shooting, calls to tech support to get it to control some of the equipment that you may supply that will almost certainly not be in the driver database, removal and reinstallation of defective products, running Cat5 from the head-end to the TV that is in the same room as the remote since the fine remote provided by C4 doesn't have IR capability even though there is a spot for it right on the remote, calls from you asking why the remote doesn't do anything anymore and me walking you through unplugging the media controller and plugging it back in, packing up your defective gear and getting it ready to ship back after spending 45 mins on the phone with tech support only to find out what I knew when I called which is "this shit doesn't work", dealing with potential issues with the quality of your ISP of which I have NO control over other than dealing with you being upset when your network goes down while you are loading up MP3s, receiving your 3rd call of the week because the LED's in your dimmers and switches on the same load won't agree with each other in any reasonable amount of consistancy, and finally having to answer questions from your friends about how the system works.

Come to think of it TP, make the check out for $20K and I'll be happy to program your previously purchased equipment.

I think it was unscrupulous of the dealer to sell him just the equipment without any programming . A quick hardware sale with none of the hassles (as mentioned by NuVision) .

The dealer should have given him a package price including programming which tpinfo could take or leave . But he should not have left this guy with a pile of equipment that he can't even use . It's like selling someone a car and not giving them the keys .

No Soup For You!


Sounds like he's charging him $10k for programming. 8 zones plus a bunch of legacy components? Seems fair to me.

I'll agree that any dealer who would sell this product without install and programming included is an jackass in my opinion and is putting themselves in a position to never have a repeat client. Notice I say client - to me there is a difference between a client who appreciates the knowledge we posses and takes to heart that we design the best system for their needs taking into account the investment they are willing to make opposed to a customerwho calls and says, "I want XYZ receiver and I will install it". We have very few customers in our database and most of our clients have my cell phone number and never abuse it. So that retail customers have an idea of what is involved in the set-up of a C4 system I will give you the rundown of what was put in my friends house (and yes, he is still my friend in spite of all of the problems). Keep in mind that the margins on the C4 product line do NOT allow me to sell harware and pay my bills to stay in business.

36 dimmers
9 2 button keypads
3 3 button keypads
2 6 button keypads
2 mini-touch screens
1 LCD Keypad
1 10.5" panel
1 media controller
1 home theater controller
8 zones of audio
400 Disc changer
Plasma TV with surround sound, DirecTV, & local DVD player

I would estimate that I have about the following hours involved and the system is still not 100 percent finished. I will certainly admit to the fact I am not the fastest C4 programmer.

18 hrs initial programming and binding equipment to program
8 hours adjusting drivers to operate equipment properly
8 hours working on getting the DVD player to go to the right movie (multiple calls)
9 hours on phone with tech support
4 hours on phone trying to get the remote to work again
4 hours configuring whole house audio system
8 hours packing up defective equipment, creating shipping tags, and replacing hardware
2 hours removing flash card and resetting 10.5" panel (multiple times and it still doesn't work)

61 Total hours @ $85 per hour = $5185 not including physical connection of equipment

The following still needs to be done:
Create lighting sceens
Configure porch lights to security system
Connect garage door control to system
Connect Home Theater Controller to master bedroom equipment
Network harddrive with MP3s to Media Controller
Find out why LED's don't track properly between Dimmer and 2 button keypad
I would estimate that at a minimum I am looking at 24 hours of work to make sure it functions properly based upon my previous experience

That would bring the total Programming side of the equation to 85 hours at $85 per hour for a total of $7225 so $10K is not at all unreasonable especially if equipment trim-out is part of the package.