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Topic:
Fireplace wall TV & speakers
This thread has 35 replies. Displaying posts 1 through 15.
Post 1 made on Sunday March 5, 2023 at 12:43
Daniel Tonks
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Trying to figure out a sound solution for a 6-foot wide stone fireplace with a TV mounted on it (something I hate, but…). There will be base cabinets and shelves on either side. Since there is zero chance I want to live with the built-in speakers, seems my choice is to either mount a soundbar below the TV, live with just left/right in-wall speakers on either side (WAF will not allow a center channel in the stone) and maybe some in-ceiling rears, or go entirely in-ceiling - although it is a vaulted ceiling.

Any thoughts on the compromises between a soundbar, a phantom center channel, and in-ceiling mains? This will NOT be a primary movie viewing location, but will be used for music as well.
Post 2 made on Sunday March 5, 2023 at 15:10
mrtristan
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Sonos is my go to even in luxury homes. Once you go Sonos it's hard to go back..but, if you're an audiophile, you have to do some other speaker/surround amp combo for potentially better sound.
Post 3 made on Sunday March 5, 2023 at 17:04
BobL
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I second the Sonos sound bar probably the Beam below the TV. The ARC is good but has some up firing drivers so it helps if it is not mounted flush to the bottom of the TV. If you want surround speakers you can us a Sonos amp with in wall or in ceiling speakers. Or you can use any of their plug in speakers.
Post 4 made on Sunday March 5, 2023 at 17:40
Brad Humphrey
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On March 5, 2023 at 15:10, mrtristan said...
Sonos is my go to even in luxury homes. Once you go Sonos it's hard to go back..but, if you're an audiophile, you have to do some other speaker/surround amp combo for potentially better sound.

You can mock about "audiophiles" all you want. All that is telling me is your standards for quality come from a very low place. And whether the product is going in a "luxury home" or a single-wide trailer, has NOTHING to do with the quality the customer may want.

It could be that a $49 iLive soundbar will make a customer happy. I don't know how since I've heard one and literally.... I've heard TV speakers sound better. But I ran into a customer that thought it was great [I was there fixing a wifi problem - not my circus, not my monkeys].

Or it could be that a customer isn't going to be happy with anything less than a top notch system. I recently had a customer buy a SONOS ARC with Sub, it was for his workshop TV (big workshop). He was NOT happy with the sound quality or the volume. He returned it and bought an ELAC Muro 60" soundbar with sub and Yammy V6A from me. He was happy with it and a noticeable improvement over the SONOS setup.
[edit]: To be clear, I'm not saying the ELAC is a top notch soundbar, it was just a step up from the SONOS system he tried and wanted something better. There are even better soundbars and way better audio systems if you step away from soundbars all together.

Oh and Bob, I'm surprised you recommended the SONOS; especially the Beam (considering the high quality of projection systems you do and are known for). The Beam sounds like crap for the $499 that it sells for. There are literally a dozen other brands that would kill the Beam at that price.

And it isn't like Daniel is a novice DIY. I'm sure he can handle pulling a few wires thru the wall. The question becomes if it's easy pulls or something more a professional would have to do - fireblocks, insulation, clearances, etc.

Last edited by Brad Humphrey on March 5, 2023 18:09.
Post 5 made on Sunday March 5, 2023 at 21:20
BobL
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There are definitely better sound bars and I agree a nice passive speaker bar with receiver will definitely be better sounding but does add complication. And you are correct Daniel is no idiot to this stuff. Does he want to do more for this room would be a better question?

I've definitely used most streamers Sonos, HEOS, MusicCast, Bluesound and I find Sonos the easiest to use as it integrates its services well. Do I think it is the best sounding, No! But convenience often trumps quality or we would all be using 4K Blu-rays instead of streaming.

The reason for the Beam is the ARC sounds like crap if you mount it flush to the bottom of the TV which I find so many people want. I mean obviously bad not just regular sound bar bad. If one can mount it 6 inches below the TV the ARC is a better choice in the Sonos lineup.

If you are only doing this one room and don't care about any house music system, then you can definitely go with a better sound bar or a speaker bar with receiver like Brad recommended. All of them I would recommend a subwoofer. This is one area physics matter and bigger is better. Whether a powered sound bar or speaker bar the ones with larger woofers 4" or larger typically sound considerably better. There is only so much that can be done with 2-3" woofers most of the big names have in them like Sonos, Samsung, LG, Sony, Yamaha, etc.

4" is the size most wooders can natively go down to about 100hz without EQ, this allows good integration crossing over to a subwoofer. So, if this is just better sound than the TV a simple sound bar will be fine. If you want better sound than a larger sound bar is typically much better. If integrating with other items in your home for music then I lean towards Sonos for most.
Post 6 made on Sunday March 5, 2023 at 21:43
Easton Altree
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Do the Sonos ARC with a SUB and a pair of ONESL  wall mounted for surrounds.  This little active combo sounds much better than it has any right to, and it is bulletproof.  
OP | Post 7 made on Sunday March 5, 2023 at 22:33
Daniel Tonks
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I think the main issue I’m having is I’ve literally dumped myself into a new house that I didn’t design or start building, is already framed with a roof but still no interior or exterior, and I’m trying to think of everything I want to change or get done before the drywall goes up that makes sense for the builder to do (as this isn’t my build I haven’t taken possession yet, so I can’t really do anything myself on-site)… while also handling all the choices needed to take possession in a couple months. I’m a researcher and a planner who likes to take his time and go room by room, and with this schedule I’m probably starting to lose it, LOL!

I owned a higher-end Samsung soundbar for about three days a couple years ago, before I said no way and went to a Marantz amp and discrete speakers. I know there’s going to be compromises, so I might just go the soundbar route for now and - if it sucks - look at adding proper speakers. I think I’m growing resigned to the fact that a lot is going to have to be retrofitted later. Which is fine, other than my annoying desire to get every wire I’ll need in before the drywall goes up!

I hadn’t contemplated a passive soundbar. Will take a look at options.
Post 8 made on Sunday March 5, 2023 at 22:49
Neurorad
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Daniel - where are you located? I, and maybe others, would give you a hand.
TB A+ Partner
Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense. -Buddha
Post 9 made on Sunday March 5, 2023 at 23:40
BobL
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Sounds like a tough situation. I had a friend that had a similar situation where they bought a house that was part of a subdivision, and the builder was unwilling to make any changes or add anything. Basically, pick your flooring and wall colors were the only changes the builder allowed. Wouldn't let him run any other wires.

Active sound bars with decent sound.
Bluesound Pulse
Sennheiser Ambeo
B&W Panorama, formation if you like the B&W sound.

Passive there are a lot of options.
Elac, Triad, Leon Speaker, Martin Logan, Paradigm, Kef, PSB, Monitor Audio, Klipsch, Golden Ear, etc.

Good luck.
Post 10 made on Monday March 6, 2023 at 06:01
buzz
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If the L/R speakers are close to the TV and image well, center channel is more or less redundant.

I’d wire for both close L/R and more optimal L/R speakers — just in case you change your mind in the future. SONOS AMP will support 4.1 or 4.2. Maybe they’ll come to their senses in the future and support more advanced setups.
Post 11 made on Monday March 6, 2023 at 09:18
Brad Humphrey
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On March 5, 2023 at 23:40, BobL said...
Sennheiser Ambeo

Have you had a chance to listen to this soundbar a lot? How does it sound?

I've looked at testing one of these before, as I love Sennheiser headphones. But the engineering & feature set had me hesitant to spend my time testing, because of the price this sells at. Just didn't seem like a good value and no way to add a subwoofer to it if needed.
Post 12 made on Monday March 6, 2023 at 09:58
highfigh
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On March 5, 2023 at 12:43, Daniel Tonks said...
Trying to figure out a sound solution for a 6-foot wide stone fireplace with a TV mounted on it (something I hate, but…). There will be base cabinets and shelves on either side. Since there is zero chance I want to live with the built-in speakers, seems my choice is to either mount a soundbar below the TV, live with just left/right in-wall speakers on either side (WAF will not allow a center channel in the stone) and maybe some in-ceiling rears, or go entirely in-ceiling - although it is a vaulted ceiling.

Any thoughts on the compromises between a soundbar, a phantom center channel, and in-ceiling mains? This will NOT be a primary movie viewing location, but will be used for music as well.

You can't carve out a spot for some small, but potent, bookshelf speakers? I would rather do that and not use a center than use a soundbar- my room doesn't lend itself to a surround system, so it's stereo and I have absolutely no problem hearing audio from dead center, which would have come from a center channel speaker. With a center channel that's not as good as what my speakers can produce, it would just annoy the crap out of me and I wouldn't want to use the system, or I would be constantly messing with it in order to improve the sound, which I NEVER do- when I hear voices (from the system!), they're extremely natural-sounding & accurate.
My mechanic told me, "I couldn't repair your brakes, so I made your horn louder."
OP | Post 13 made on Monday March 6, 2023 at 12:07
Daniel Tonks
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Thanks for the comments! Oh, and I’m in Ontario so that probably doesn’t help. :)

Thankfully this is a small builder basically building his own development two houses at a time, and he’s quite open to significant changes. That does make many things possible, but not necessarily cheap or advisable.

After spending decades with a 4.0/4.1 setup I’m a pretty big fan of center channels for vocal imaging - but of course a crappy center isn’t going to make me happy either.

For some reason bookshelf speakers hadn’t come to mind - probably because I’m like there’s no way the wife will allow some big black boxes there, but they do come in white and wood tones, which could be acceptable. I’ll have to float that idea since it would keep the mantle area looking cleaner.
Post 14 made on Monday March 6, 2023 at 13:49
tomciara
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On March 6, 2023 at 06:01, buzz said...
If the L/R speakers are close to the TV and image well, center channel is more or less redundant.

I’d wire for both close L/R and more optimal L/R speakers — just in case you change your mind in the future. SONOS AMP will support 4.1 or 4.2. Maybe they’ll come to their senses in the future and support more advanced setups.

Daniel seemed to indicate this is a secondary room, so I would echo this statement. With left and right speakers in-wall adjacent to the television, the center channel is hardly needed.

I did have a brick and mortar stereo sales and repair shop for 30 years, and I can say conclusively that different people hear things differently. I regularly listened to and absorbed customers' words like warm, tasty, and the like.

That being said, while some audio nuts would prefer to listen to certain 60's albums in mono because they were originally made that way, stereo and stereo separation are something that I personally like, and mono sounds very stuffy and dull.

So I have a generally low opinion of sound bars because they are very close to a single point source. Now if you have reasonably close adjacent side walls that will bounce the sounds from the side speakers of a decent sound bar, then you can get some nice pseudo-room filling sound. but otherwise I would prefer a left and a right in-wall of decent quality, and for convenience, a Sonos amp due to its ARC capability. Add in-ceiling or in-wall surrounds.  Use an audiophile amp if you prefer and add a control system.
There is no truth anymore. Only assertions. The internet world has no interest in truth, only vindication for preconceived assumptions.
Post 15 made on Monday March 6, 2023 at 15:00
BHuey1969
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Artison? Either the Studio Soundbar and order a grill to match the TV or the Masterpiece LCRs, with matching grills to your TV.

The Masterpieces attach to the side of the TV and use all three LCR channels from your receiver. Have drivers built in to create a center channel. They might be a little too linear to sound right it they are mounted too far above ear level.
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