Customer has a 14/4 running to the outside of the house for a pair of speakers on a porch. Parasound amp with Sonos connect and vol control via the Sonos app. Customer would also like to add another set of speakers facing another part of the yard. There is no way to run a new 14/4 for the other set back to the amp. I do have access to the 14/4 in an attic area that runs to the porch speakers.

While I can hookup both sets of speakers to the 4ch parasound amp, which is connected to Sonos, without issue, the potential Problem is different vol levels needed for listening w/ close proximity on porch vs louder levels needed for those facing rear yard. The back porch isn't used as much so a vol control here could keep that zone off or lower vol levels vs rear yard while using Sonos app for normal volume control. Can just one leg be hooked up to a volume control or would both sets of speakers? If both I would have to just put one up in the attic for the backyard set. Am I overlooking any other options?

Can you hide a Connect Amp in another room and run it out the wall and use landscape speakers?

If you are stuck with your particular scenario I would add another Connect to the Parasound, sum both Connects to mono and run both zones as mono off of the existing 14/4. This way the client can operate each zone independently and no need for a physical volume control.

imt,

As long as you are mindful of the impedance presented to the amplifier, you could add a volume control to only one leg of your speaker network. Note that a 1:1 impedance matching control will allow maximum level in both areas. Other ratios will lower the maximum available to the speakers connected through the control -- which in your case might be constructive.

I prefer AZCS suggestion of separate amplifiers for each area -- with or without separate volume controls.

Finally, I'm reluctant to attach autotransformer impedance matching controls to amplifiers capable of delivering more than about 100W per channel because, when you over-drive the control, the control will "saturate". "High current" amplifiers present more risk if the control saturates. When a control saturates it essentially presents a short circuit to the amplifier -- hopefully triggering the amplifier's protection circuit rather than smoke. In addition to amplifier risk, you risk burning out the control if there are repeating saturation events. In some very unfortunate cases I have observed a saturation event at every power up of the system.

Which Parasound amp?

Is the first volume control far from the second pair?

If you're running speaker wire to the second pair, why can't you parallel that with the first volume control and place the second volume control wherever you want, one that's made for outdoor use? The amp won't care unless the control saturates or you try to pump a ton of power to the speakers and if that's the case, it's time to redesign the system because that's not how this should be done.

Also, it's best to aim the speakers toward the building, rather than away- it's easier to achieve a usable SPL by using the reflected sound than trying to fill the whole outdoor area with a small number of speakers. If you use one pair and a lot of power, it will eventually (inevitably?) run into thermal compression if the SPL from one pair falls short.

AZCS has the solution. He starts by recognizing something that usually doesn't occur to us: stereo really doesn't mean very much in locations like this. In your situation, I'd do what he suggests.

I say this after inventing a different way to do it that closely follows your proposed idea.

If you try to do this with just the one amp you've now got, you'll end up with a scenario where the full amp power is never available to the near speakers,* and you may have to adjust the volume of the Sonos and of the near speaker volume control before turning the far speakers on. I just don't see a simple way to do this with one amp. Worse, switching the far speakers on and off will not only not be simple, but because it will involve doing more than one step before turning on the far speakers, it won't be intuitive.



*You'd need an impedance matching VC on the near speakers; those control impedance by cutting down the maximum power they'll transfer to their loads

Thanks guys.

So first off, I proposed a Landscape system. Have been doing a bunch of the Episode and said this would be highly advisable given that the speakers would be back where he would be sitting and pointed towards the house allowing listen levels loud for him while minimizing impact to neighbors. He is re-doing the backyard and really tried to push it but no go.

House was already wired for outdoor speakers in 2 spots. The backyard isn't overly deep. Maybe 50' or so from the looks of it. so he didn't want the expense of installing the landscape system and just wanted to mount speakers outside to the existing wiring in 2 areas.

So initially quoted installing a Parasound 450 and 2 Sonos connects for the 2 zones and installing Sonance Mariners. One zone is a raised small covered patio, which is off to one side of the house and other is more in the main listening space (BBQ/ Gazebo). However, he has a firepit area located between the two areas like 25' wide x 50' deep.

The house juts out in this space so sound, especially high's would be blocked from the main listening area speakers. So I thought about maybe adding a single stereo speaker directed more toward the firepit area. Both the single stereo speaker and the pair over the balcony would be wired together and controlled by the 1 Sonos connect. Of course the issue I raised was that the volume would be tied and would be way to loud on the patio when wanting to hear music at the firepit.

I discovered there was this attic crawlspace area above the room you walk into off the covered patio. A 14/4 and cat5e or cat6, from the equip room, goes down the outside wall to an exterior in wall Single gang box. 14/4 then back up to the attic to then 14/2 wiring for speakers over the sliding glass doors.

I don't have the time to study all of this so please just tell me: what does this last paragraph mean to you? Does it solve your problem? How?

If the amplifier has level controls, it's easy as long as it's also accessible to the users. If not, it would be better to use two volume controls since another Sonos will add $350 + to the cost (assuming budget is a factor). I only set up outdoor speakers as stereo if the customer has a stereo receiver powering them as a low-budget solution because it may not be an important area for music, only background. If it's anything else, I go mono, somehow. I like amplifiers and small mixers that have a Mono button/circuit, but I also have an Edcor summing transformer in case I don't have the luxury of this kind of amp or mixer.

I usually mention using mono because I don't want them to ask why they don't hear separation.

So, if I am understanding this right, Mono is the way to go.


AZCS's option, which would require 1 additional connect. If I am understanding this right, instead of having the parasound set to Mono and sum the input, which would use both input channels, I would need 2ea Edcor's, which would feed output from connect 1 to LT CH and output from connect 2 to RT CH on the Parasound. Thus, 2 wires output on connect 1 and same for connect 2. I then can drive up to 3ea 8ohm speakers in mono, on each channel, given the amp is 2ohm stable.

Highfive's option, thus splicing in parallel off the 14/4 prior to running down the wall to the exterior wall box to so that a volume control can be added for each leg. While this would be the lowest cost option, there is no way to get another volume control outside. Well probably not in any non destructive way. Outside the patio wall is brick. Inside is Plaster/Lathe and stucco and brick on rest of the exterior. Have to think about it but then at the end of the day AZCS's could be about the same cost once factoring in extra labor to get a volume control outside.

Yes.


I hadn't thought of that, but read on.

Aha. The "read on" was to be sure that it would be okay to pile more speakers onto each amp channel. Sounds like you've thought that through.


Are you talking about using HighFigh's approach OR AZCS's approach?

Another idea: Could you use a wireless device to get audio to the area of the speakers further out, putting an amplifier out there?

With one client we used an Atlantic Technology WA-5030. It sent two channels of audio by RF to a receiver, then on to a 30 watt per channel amplifier. This was for getting get rear channel signal from front to back in a very difficult room. I think they have a similar device with a line level output, too. It's just a thought.

So I am at the house right now. Wanted to get some measurements. It's only 40' from the house to a retaining wall in the back. Then with a 5' raised planting bed before a 6' tall fence. This is the main area and based on the plans, the primary entertaining area is only like 40x40. The additional fire pit area is like 25' wide x 40, which is adjacent to the main area but is stepped down and the house juts out 3'.

But if I re-think this as mono I could add a speaker on the main speaker side for the fire pit instead. It's like 30' from the fire pit to the house. vertically and angle it to side and down toward the fire pit. Not sure if 4 speakers (3ea for main listening area + 1 for fire pit area is too much. Mariners are sold in pairs.

Then just the two zones. Covered patio and backyard.