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Topic:
Dual Shield RG6 Suitable for Short CATV Run?
This thread has 21 replies. Displaying posts 1 through 15.
Post 1 made on Sunday July 31, 2016 at 19:32
PatMac
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I rarely use my RG6 for CATV. In remodels and new construction, there is typically an electrician running the RG6. I believe they use quad shield. This particular remodel calls for me running the RG6. (Long story)
I am still using a box of dual shielded (60%) Coleman Cable 92003. Have lots left in the box.
[Link: ccixpress.com]

I will be running this through studs for about 10' sharing the same hole with 2 HDMI cables, speaker wires, and a few cat5/6 cables. The total length of the new cable will be about 30'. It will be an extension of an existing cable outlet behind a fireplace.

I reluctantly went to Lowe's and found some quad shield 60/40. I can purchase by the foot, but I don't know if my compression fittings will work on it. The salesman (retired electrician) said the prepackaged GE quad shield is a better cable, but there are no good specs available, such as shield % braid coverage. Same concern about fittings with this...not sure if mine will fit.

Pre-wire is Wednesday and is time critical. Need to avoid any trips to the electrical supply if at all possible. I really don't want to buy in bulk if not necessary.

I am guessing my dual shielded (60%) Coleman Cable 92003 will be just fine, but I would like someone smarter than me about this issue to tell me if I am right or wrong. Hopefully, I am just worrying too much.

Thanks in advance!
Post 2 made on Sunday July 31, 2016 at 19:53
radiorhea
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piece of empty conduit will fix that anxiety...
Drinking upstream from the herd since 1960
Post 3 made on Sunday July 31, 2016 at 19:54
ericspencer
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Absolutely, dual shield rg6 has no more loss than quad shield.
Not my circus, not my monkeys
Post 4 made on Sunday July 31, 2016 at 21:00
P2P
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I haven't pulled quad shield coax in over 15 years.  In most markets it simply isn't needed anymore.

Use a high quality 95% or better braid, solid copper core, low loss dual shield and you'll be fine.

We use a 4.5 GHz serial digital cable for most everything.  Have never had an issue.
OP | Post 5 made on Sunday July 31, 2016 at 21:27
PatMac
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On July 31, 2016 at 19:53, radiorhea said...
piece of empty conduit will fix that anxiety...

zero room for conduit, but good idea
Post 6 made on Sunday July 31, 2016 at 21:55
King of typos
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Even the cable company doesn't run quad, if they do it's because their using up stock.

As for your dilemma of not knowing if your compression fittings will work... Well why not go back to the store and try it.

KOT
Post 7 made on Sunday July 31, 2016 at 23:55
Brad Humphrey
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Coleman cable is very good cable.
The only problem I see is what you linked to is CCS (Copper Clad Steel). I despise CCS and NEVER use the cheap crap. BUT! The lengths you mentioned, there is no way you are going to run into any problems with it. You would need to be going over 100ft on runs to even have that discussion (same with quad shielding for most residential).
Particularly, Coleman uses thick copper cladding on the steel as well. So again no worries with their cable.
Post 8 made on Monday August 1, 2016 at 03:04
Ernie Gilman
Yes, That Ernie!
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Stephen Lampen wrote a book on installation practices and just about every other aspect of the custom installation book. He worked for Belden at the time (might still).

Somehow he and I were on the phone one day and we talked about quad versus dual shield. He said, or I got him to admit, that there are two distinct reasons to use quad shield:

A.Because the cable is being run in an area with a lot of RF, such as in a TV transmitter room.

B.So the next installer who comes along can't pull out some nice fat quad shield wire, show the ignorant client that his is fatter, and say, "ah, I see the last guy didn't bother to use the good stuff!"
A good answer is easier with a clear question giving the make and model of everything.
"The biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place." -- G. “Bernie” Shaw
Post 9 made on Monday August 1, 2016 at 08:43
thecapnredfish
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On July 31, 2016 at 23:55, Brad Humphrey said...
Coleman cable is very good cable.
The only problem I see is what you linked to is CCS (Copper Clad Steel). I despise CCS and NEVER use the cheap crap. BUT! The lengths you mentioned, there is no way you are going to run into any problems with it. You would need to be going over 100ft on runs to even have that discussion (same with quad shielding for most residential).
Particularly, Coleman uses thick copper cladding on the steel as well. So again no worries with their cable.

You do realize the feeder cable coming to your customers tap is CCS. There is a reason. Skin effect. Signal rides on the outer part of conductor.
Post 10 made on Monday August 1, 2016 at 09:27
Zohan
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That cable is fine, I use it all the time.
Post 11 made on Monday August 1, 2016 at 09:41
highfigh
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On July 31, 2016 at 19:32, PatMac said...
I rarely use my RG6 for CATV. In remodels and new construction, there is typically an electrician running the RG6. I believe they use quad shield. This particular remodel calls for me running the RG6. (Long story)
I am still using a box of dual shielded (60%) Coleman Cable 92003. Have lots left in the box.
[Link: ccixpress.com]

I will be running this through studs for about 10' sharing the same hole with 2 HDMI cables, speaker wires, and a few cat5/6 cables. The total length of the new cable will be about 30'. It will be an extension of an existing cable outlet behind a fireplace.

You're running HDMI without conduit and a way to replace it WHEN it fails?
My mechanic told me, "I couldn't repair your brakes, so I made your horn louder."
Post 12 made on Monday August 1, 2016 at 09:42
Brad Humphrey
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On August 1, 2016 at 08:43, thecapnredfish said...
You do realize the feeder cable coming to your customers tap is CCS. There is a reason. Skin effect. Signal rides on the outer part of conductor.

You realize that for satellite, there is DC voltages involved and the voltage drop of SC vs. CCS is substantial. Also for VHF & base-band signals, the loss per ft. is significant between the 2.
I only use SC quad shield because of the overkill. Because I can pull a 250ft run when I need to, without any worries (for any service) - try and do a 250ft pull with CCS dual shield and see if you have problems. Before you answer "I have done it and had no problems" I submit to you that there were problems, you just didn't realize it and/or wasn't using enough service on the cable that would show. Ignorance is bliss.

Like I said however; for the short runs that the OP is doing, he will have no problems with just about anything he puts in. Especially with the Coleman cable.
Post 13 made on Monday August 1, 2016 at 11:57
Ernie Gilman
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On August 1, 2016 at 08:43, thecapnredfish said...
You do realize the feeder cable coming to your customers tap is CCS. There is a reason. Skin effect. Signal rides on the outer part of conductor.

Brad makes a very good point.

Cable companies use CCS because every bit of the signal they put over it is indeed high enough in frequency that skin effect prevails. CATV, on the other hand, has timing signals near 60 Hz, and there's NO WAY skin effect helps out at this frequency.

Signals travel more slowly in steel than in copper, though this detail is not likely to be visible on an analog signal with a hundred foot run. This should mess up digital signals as it will provide single-bounce "echoes" of low frequency timing signals.

Satellite systems do have signals as low as 0 Hz, which is to say DC. Again, there is no skin effect at this frequency.

The steel of CCS is there for three reasons: it doesn't mess with cable signal; it's less expensive than copper core; and often lengths of cable are run with no support, so the steel helps keep the cable from stretching. All cable drops, even a ten foot drop, should have a messenger to support the cable, but this doesn't always happen. (The steel wire that's bonded to the insulation of RG6 is called the messenger and it's there purely for mechanical support.)

Yes, I wrote more than was necessary. Since this comes up every couple of years, it seems reasonable to assume new guys haven't seen the information.
A good answer is easier with a clear question giving the make and model of everything.
"The biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place." -- G. “Bernie” Shaw
Post 14 made on Monday August 1, 2016 at 21:15
Archibald "Harry" Tuttle
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On August 1, 2016 at 09:42, Brad Humphrey said...
I only use SC quad shield because of the overkill.

+1
I came into this game for the action, the excitement. Go anywhere, travel light, get in, get out, wherever there's AV trouble, a man alone.
Post 15 made on Tuesday August 2, 2016 at 00:45
Mogul
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Belden 7915a, 3Ghz tri-shield...Problem solved.
"Whatever is rightly done, however humble, is noble." [Sir Henry Royce]
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