Oh, good, it's not just me. I read Westom's posts... I swear they are written by a bot. Each sentence is a good sentence, but nothing flows, there is no connection of similar ideas, and each sentence leaves me asking for clarity.

It's not even clear enough to disagree with!


Thanks, westom. This is the PERFECT example of what I was talking about. The entire subject of the thread is "tying knots..." and you're asking about death from lightning. You don't seem to know how ideas connect together.

Your comment about the lack of numbers keeping people from really understanding what's going on just cracks me up, since you offer no numbers to back up what you're saying. You say look at the numbers, but there are no numbers. It's the Emperor's New Physics!

Another idiotic reply.

Who cares if you havent seen 90 degree bends? Are you really in this business, or just a troll here?

Not at all.

Who cares if you've seen 90 degree bends? You have to have run across the work of a complete idiot to see 90 degree bends in electrical wiring You don't even see 90 degree bends in Romex, let alone BX or conduit. Conduit or pipe uses sweeps, not 90 degree connectors.

If you don't want to not care what someone wrote, then don't care, and don't write a response.

I've seen a couple of pieces of actual pipe and a water pipe 90 used for electrical. It was idiotic. Seeing 90 degree bends in wiring only means you've run across the work of an idiot.

deleted - redundant

Knots are tied to protect from destructive transients. Lightning is a typical example. What lightning does in knots and splices was discussed repeatedly. Any discussion about protecting hardware is about stopping lightning (and other transient that are similar and hardware destructive). Knots do not protect hardware. Numbers that say why are defined.

Sharp bends (a knot) increases impedance. Impedance is a relevant number.

What happens when impedance (a number) increases? Voltage (from any destructive transient) increases as necessary to blow through that impedance. Another concept (current source) says why tiny impedance in a knot (or even something with much larger impedance such as inductors inside a Panamax) does not protect.

Separation between protector and appliance may subvert protection. For example, 120 ohm impedance on a 50 foot AC wire from receptacle to breaker box means a tiny 100 amp transient can create something less than 12,000 volts between that receptacle and earth ground. The number called impedance is critical. A knot can also subvert protection.

Critical to surge protection is a less than 10 foot connection to earth. Every foot shorter increases protection - decreases the number called impedance. Every foot longer (and other mistakes such as splices, metallic conduit, and sharp bends) subverts protection by increasing a number called impedance. A knot can also subvert that protection.

Relevant numbers were introduced. Who else defined relevant numbers? You provided one number - a 1/4" spark gap. That number is relevant only if connected low impedance to earth. You provided some numbers. Most did not. Most recommendations were only based in feelings or speculation. Which relevant numbers were described.


What does a knot do? Changes a relevant number called impedance. How much? Enough to subvert protection or not enough to increase protection. A number called impedance says why - and by how much. Which part confuses you?

Household wiring has excessive impedance because Romex (and other wires) have many 90 and 180 degree bends (and splices) inside every junction box. Why would anyone knot know that?

And yet, they make these and other 90 degree parts for conduit-

[Link: homedepot.com]

Granted, they aren't made for Romex, but....

I guess the electricians need better training. And I keep seeing ads stating that electricians know what they're doing. Hmmm.

I take back almost all of what I just wrote. Compared to everything else that's going on, responses to this person are trivial:


Wait -- was that a joke, or simply not keeping track of the subject?

As someone said, the gift that keeps giving.

Step right up and get your tickets folks. It's a battle royal of the HAL 9000's.

I guess the electrons get dizzy.

Aside from potentially thinning the conductor in a bend, there's nothing to see here.

I try to avoid getting into a battle of wits with a half-armed man. Beside that, when you argue with an idiot, they drag you down to their level and then win by dint of their superior experience at that level. So, no.

HOLY CRAP, Earnie suggested tying a knot in "it" as birth control. And the greatness of that alone got missed in the conversation. I guess I am easily entertained but that there is funny!

Actually, Stupid, it was a serious question to your comment. A turn is a big difference in a bend. If there is anything to this theory, a sharp bend would be very different from a turn.

Irrelevant misinformation...

The only positive thing we can draw from this is that no trees or ink are being wasted printing out something as meaningless as this. Oh, also no endangered species were further endangered as far as we know.

Ernie I was just responding to that person the way he likes to respond to me...

I wired homes for decades. 90 degree bends were not at all uncommon. Why do you say it's idiotic?