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Topic:
tying knots in wires to avoid surges - is this true?
This thread has 67 replies. Displaying posts 16 through 30.
Post 16 made on Wednesday June 8, 2016 at 08:29
Duct Tape
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On June 8, 2016 at 08:18, studiocats1 said...
A lightning cloud holds a potential 100 million volts and a strike can contain a large percentage of that at 50,000 amperes.

Who knew a knot in your cable could stop that kind of energy from damage!

I surely did knot!
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Post 17 made on Wednesday June 8, 2016 at 08:34
Brentm
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On June 8, 2016 at 08:12, davet2020 said...
The concern is if the ground wire has sharp bends in it or 90 degree turns then at that point the lightning may jump from the ground wire to another nearby object thus defeating the purpose of the ground wire.

Now, that makes sense.
Brent McCall
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Post 18 made on Wednesday June 8, 2016 at 09:07
highfigh
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On June 7, 2016 at 22:47, Brad Humphrey said...
Julie this was something that was popular in the 60s-70s. I remember my dad, after repairing a TV, would make sure their was a good knot in the power cord just inside the TV.

But those days were back when Vacuum tubes and large solid state was the norm. And those operated at MUCH higher voltages than the micro PCs we have in every device today. Back then, equipment was not bothered by surges of a few hundred volts and tying knots in the power cable would help attenuate the spikes of thousands of volts.

Pretty sure that was to prevent the wire damaging the fuse holder or power transformer leads, caused by kids yanking on the power cord. Not all TVs/radios/amplifiers had a good strain relief.
My mechanic told me, "I couldn't repair your brakes, so I made your horn louder."
Post 19 made on Wednesday June 8, 2016 at 09:58
GotGame
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If you are grounding something,such as antenna mast or Dish, the copper ground wire (strap is better) should be connected to the bare metal of the pipe/tower/mast and covered in corrosion inhibitor to keep out oxygen and water.
The preferred transition should be a brass lug.

Galvanized towers as an example. The ground connection point needs to be on the bare steel and not the galvanized top layer.
I may be schizophrenic, but at least I have each other.
Post 20 made on Wednesday June 8, 2016 at 11:12
Trunk-Slammer -Supreme
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On June 8, 2016 at 08:12, davet2020 said...
`



The concern is if the ground wire has sharp bends in it or 90 degree turns then at that point the lightning MAY jump from the ground wire to another nearby object thus defeating the purpose of the ground wire.

Notice the word MAY?


In other words it MAY not.



That said, we need a volunteer to be the nearby object..... :-)
Post 21 made on Wednesday June 8, 2016 at 11:28
Ernie Gilman
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Julie, this is really funny. Which is to say, while there are germs of truth in here, overall it sounds like exaggeration that results in hokum.

The writing has all the sincerity and grammar of an email I got last week from a Nigerian prince.

Check out this article on the Edison Knot: [Link: edisonbulbs.net] No, not the way you tie a tie, but the way you interleave two wires inside a plug or a light socket so that neither wire can be pulled out. Gee, it looks like the image in #6!

On June 8, 2016 at 07:58, Brentm said...
I can certainly see that, wrapping the wire within a wire nut (or a crimp connector) will create a spark gap where the juice will jump the open air.

And Brent knows well that a spark gap is a gap. That is, it's a place where two wires are NOT connected together, but are precisely spaced for some reason. Two wires twisted inside a wire nut make a connection. That's not a gap.

With regard to lightning, a spark gap is used as a path that's a lower impedance to ground than the wiring. I vaguely remember that there IS a knot or a coiling of the wire right after a spark gap. Here's a spark gap, the kind that might be in a Tesla coil:





The only way that I can see any validity to this (IMO), is to look at it from a volume/flow perspective where the knot becomes (basically) a fuse, too much volume will blow the fuse.

That sounds like deep logic applied to a silly premise. Just my opinion.

The 90 deg thing just does not work for me but, I have been wrong before (just ask my wife).

You may have just been wrong for writing that!
A good answer is easier with a clear question giving the make and model of everything.
"The biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place." -- G. “Bernie” Shaw
Post 22 made on Wednesday June 8, 2016 at 12:21
FP Crazy
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On June 8, 2016 at 11:12, Trunk-Slammer -Supreme said...
Notice the word MAY?

In other words it MAY not.

That said, we need a volunteer to be the nearby object..... :-)

I volunteer Ken to be the new human Jacob's Ladder! (it might improve your eye sight?)
Chasing Ernie's post count, one useless post at a time.
Post 23 made on Wednesday June 8, 2016 at 12:36
thecapnredfish
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Won't stop it but some of the voltage may leave the cable at the kink. Very true.
Post 24 made on Wednesday June 8, 2016 at 12:50
tomciara
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Did you know that gullible is not in the dictionary?
There is no truth anymore. Only assertions. The internet world has no interest in truth, only vindication for preconceived assumptions.
Post 25 made on Wednesday June 8, 2016 at 13:10
Brentm
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On June 8, 2016 at 11:28, Ernie Gilman said...
Julie, this is really funny. Which is to say, while there are germs of truth in
And Brent knows well that a spark gap is a gap. That is, it's a place where two wires are NOT connected together, but are precisely spaced for some reason. Two wires twisted inside a wire nut make a connection. That's not a gap.

My only potential for accuracy here comes down to the quality of the connection

On 1465399728, Ernie Gilman said...
With regard to lightning, a spark gap is used as a path that's a lower impedance to ground than the wiring. I vaguely remember that there IS a knot or a coiling of the wire right after a spark gap. Here's a spark gap, the kind that might be in a Tesla coil:




That sounds like deep logic applied to a silly premise. Just my opinion.

You may have just been wrong for writing that!

Well of course I was, again just ask my (long suffering) wife.
Brent McCall
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Ethereal (386) 846-7264 Cell
Post 26 made on Wednesday June 8, 2016 at 13:21
Fins
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One thing interesting about this, Google turns up about the same amount of results supporting the knot theory as it does claiming it's a BS. But almost everyone for the knot has a different explination as to why it works
Civil War reenactment is LARPing for people with no imagination.

Post 27 made on Wednesday June 8, 2016 at 15:33
buzz
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The knot adds a little bit of series inductance. A "choke" if you like. In theory, this will tend to limit the inrush current associated with the lightning strike. As a practical matter, I don't think that this is a major benefit. A few turns around a nail or ferrite bead will tend to add a similar effect. I'm not so sure that many would recommend knotting the network cable associated with a gigabit network.

The inductance represents a series impedance for the high frequency components of that leading edge. Of course, this this might offer a mild protection from nearby induced strikes, but a direct strike will likely have enough potential to simply jump across that impedance and damage the equipment anyway.

Bottom line for me: "Urban Myth". I would never substitute this trick for serious lightning protection.
Post 28 made on Wednesday June 8, 2016 at 15:48
Brad Humphrey
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Inductance!!!
Tear open a surge protector (especially a Panamax) and notice one of the 1st things in the circuit path = a small donut magnet with just a few winds of wire around it (a small inductor).
A knot in a wire does similar, only not as effective.

Again, this was a popular theory back in the days of vacuum tubes and those large solid state devices. They could survive pretty good surges on their own. Tying a knot in the power cable, helped a few devices survive some pretty big surges. And the practice was born. Back then, good surge protectors were far and few between (and very expensive).

There is science behind this, but just tying a knot in a power cable does NOT give any significant protection these days for our sensitive electronic devices. But one could argue that it helps a little overall.
Post 29 made on Thursday June 9, 2016 at 09:12
ericspencer
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On June 8, 2016 at 15:48, Brad Humphrey said...
. Tying a knot in the power cable, helped a few devices survive some pretty big surges. And the practice was born. Back then, good surge protectors were far and few between (and very expensive).

The only thing the knot did was keep the cable from being disconnected from the TV chassis when some one pulled on the AC cord.
Not my circus, not my monkeys
Post 30 made on Thursday June 9, 2016 at 09:30
Mr. Stanley
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Years ago lightning came into our client's home via one of the outdoor speaker wires. It then proceeded to fry all of the speakers in the house ( about 10 pair). There were a lot of 90 degree bends in the wiring throughout the house, so I gotta call BS on this.
"If it keeps up, man will atrophy all his limbs but the push-button finger."
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