You've inspired me to look into it further.

Regarding long answers: look at 3PedalMini's reply. It is very long, which you guys seem to object to on principle. But since the subject is not simple, a simple reply is not appropriate unless you want to stay simple and not understand.


Billion-dollar industries, where the tiniest of expensive differences can mean the difference between winning and losing, are completely non-representative of you and of the rest of us (except Matt). Are you using the engines that racers use? The car body construction?

Okay, nitrofill is not hokum. It's not worth it, though, to anyone except a race team, where wins and losses hings on tiny advantages and the cost is figured totally differently from the way we think of automobile costs.

The super high end audio guy might get a quarter percent improvement in the sound he perceives by buying cables with DC bias, or thousand dollar speaker or power cables, but that's not worth it to the rest of us. A quarter percent improvement in the performance of a race team might mean winning. But they check tire pressure before every run,* while you probably check your tire pressure once a month. Four times a year, maybe? When the tires look low, at which point they've been wasting money for months? The normal person's lack of tire pressure maintenance far outweighs any difference nitrofill can make. Using nitrofill can make him feel good, but if that makes him feel good he should be totally depressed by his normal lack of attention to tire pressure.


Air compressors do not generate moisture. If they did, we'd be able to make drinking water in the desert just by compressing air.

When air is compressed, moisture already in the incoming air condenses to water, so there's water in the tank. That's why tanks have to be drained regularly.

Think about this for a moment: if there's water in the incoming air and that water condenses inside the tank, then the air that comes out of the tank has less water in it than the air outside the tank. Compressing the air reduces the amount of moisture going into the tires! And water traps don't cost all that much but you're not going to find them on the gas station pump stand. It's not worth it to them to have it.

So, yes, it's well proven that nitrofill doesn't change as much as plain air with temperature changes. However, most people don't pay enough attention to the air pressure in their tires, so the advantages of nitrofill are, for most people, lost by their behavior and thus not worth the money.

At [Link: edmunds.com] they say

*I admit, I guessed that. Hey, it's a billion dollar industry and normal for them is way beyond normal for the rest of us.

Take all of this "advice" and do it on the last day of the month, everyone struggling to make their numbers.

December 31st, not so much, they are fully aware of "tax write off" purchases and don't deal as much.

Ernie, that fact that people don't pay attention to their tire pressures makes Nitrogen even more attractive. Without a doubt it maintains a more stable pressure OVER A LONGER PERIOD OF TIME without checking.

One good way to make people check tire pressures is to charge them for Nitrogen. After that its on like Donkey Kong. I have watched people freak out if they couldn't get Nitrogen in their tires during service.

And by the way a proper machine puts the tire in a vacuum before inflating with nitrogen.

Re the question of whether nitrofill is worth doing, from [Link: odometer.com]


Is everybody going to dump their cars in favor of one that has this coating? Or even ask the dealer about it? Is it worth it?

Excuse me for symantecs, limp dick. You knew what I was referring to though. Most shops only think to drain their tanks once a day, if that, unless they notice water coming out of the air hose. And even if they do drain it, they still are not getting all the water out of the tank.

Being you live where it's a constant 78 degrees (which apparently turns people into pure pricks after long exposure), then nitrogen in tires is probably meaningless to you. But in environments that go below freezing, air pressure in tires can fluctuate greatly. And since most new vehicles have tire pressure sensors, it can drive a person nuts. Before switching to nitro, during the winter I could regularly leave my home at 7:00 in the morning with temps of 15 degrees, and have at least one tire showing low, then after driving 15 miles, the pressure be back to normal. So once again, you don't know as much as you think.

Sounds like the air compressor generates water out of moisture.

during the winter I could regularly leave my home at 7:00 in the morning with temps of 15 degrees, and have at least one tire showing low, then after driving 15 miles, the pressure be back to normal.

If the problem was related to the contents of the tires why didn't the problem tend to exhibit itself in all the tires?

Just for the curious:

[Link: edmunds.com]

SO:


1. No trade in.
2. Lots of research.
3. Know what you are willing to pay.


Just for the hell of it, tell the sales guy you want it financed, and haggle from there.

Why?

Since they know they'll be getting that kickback money on the back end, they will offer a better deal.

Then after getting the firm number, pay cash.

Are all of your tires always the exact same pressure? From what I've seen tire sensors are so sensitive that if your tires are rated for 35psi and that's what the sensors are calibrated for, if the pressure drops to 34 the warning light comes on. And also techs are bad to get in a hurry and convince themselves they don't need a gauge, they have been doing it long enough to get it right by feel. So other tires may be over inflated. the nitrogen is definetly worth it to me to not have to get out and check tires in 0 and pounding winds

When a gas is compressed, the temperature increases but that's not when the water condenses, it's when the pressure drops from being released at the nozzle or other tool and that's the reason filters and collectors are needed on the air lines and tools. It's the same principle that explains how clouds are created. Moisture also condenses in the tank as the gas' temperature drops to that of the surrounding air. The moisture in the air isn't reduced by compressing it, it's reduced when the filters are used. Also, if the compressor for filling tires is coin operated, you're probably right- it's not filtered but if it's just a hose coming from the main shop compressor, you can generally bet that it will have at least one filter/collector on the lines to protect their air tools.

Nitrogen isn't realy useful for street cars WRT actual performance- the chance that the tread temperature will come close to that of a race car is nil although the gas temperature increased through heat transmission from braking but as posted, it makes sensors show problems with pressure.

Doesn't mean Nitrogen is needed but you know someone will try to sell it as The Next Best Thing.

You need a garage- if it's that cold and windy, there's no freaking way I'm checking my tire pressure outside.

For tires i check them visually everytime i get has and i check pressure before winter and about a week after it gets really cold.

I also skip tire rotating. I keep tires for exactly the number of miles they are rated for then i replace all 4 regardless of condition. Everytime i have ever rotated tires in the past it causes the vehicle to wobble. I used to move tge rears up and buy two for the back but now tires are so cheap online i just buy all 4 and let the local shop put them on. They are happy to keep my old tires because they resell them.

A lot of the tire stores here don't sell used because they don't want to deal with liability.

I have a place in Chicago near where i grew up that i go to. Their target market for used tires are people who get a flat and need a tire immediately... but they don't have $150 or the time to wait all day at pep boys.

I go there to have winter/summer rims uninstalled/reinstalled and to have new tires put on. They charge me $20 and since they keep the used tires they don't charge me to dispose of them.

My first thought was that I've never found tires cheap enough online where after the cost of having them put on, I would come out ahead enough to be worth the hassle of me having to handle the tires. But with a $20 labor charge, maybe it's worth it. Where are you ordering tires from?

Tire rack. The first time i bought tires from them was in 99 or early 2000. The cost for two new good year (oem for my van) tires local was going to be $360 installed. I found them at tire rack for $69 each. So i got 4 tires installed for what two would have been from sears or ntb not sure which major chain it was. They have a warehouse in Indiana i think because i got them 2 days later. The second set of tires i ordered with rims ($59 per rim special). They were balanced and ready to go when they showed up.