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The following page was printed from RemoteCentral.com:
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What HDCP 2.2 Means for an Integrator
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| Topic: | What HDCP 2.2 Means for an Integrator This thread has 38 replies. Displaying posts 1 through 15. |
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| Post 1 made on Thursday December 11, 2014 at 13:58 |
Active Member |
Joined: Posts: | November 2009 610 |
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**Start Preface
I'm importing this from another thread because I think it's important enough to have one dedicated to it. I've traveled throughout the country attending various industry events the last few months and have come to the realization that while most dealers are aware of HDCP 2.2, they really have no idea what it actually means for them going forward.
Once again, I'll admit this thread to be somewhat self-serving due to our new HDCP 2.2 compatible line, but I think the information is invaluable and needs to be shared.
**End Preface
...as installers, if you seriously want to future proof your installs, you REALLY need to do your homework and make sure the 4K TV's you're installing are HDCP 2.2 enabled.
Going forward, any source delivering HDCP content at native 4K resolutions is mandated to carry the new 2.2 chipset. These sources will NOT work with equipment unless they're also enabled with HDCP 2.2. In other words, everything in the chain after the source also needs to be HDCP 2.2 enabled (AVR's, matrix switches, extenders, displays, etc), or you won't get a picture.
That means if your client goes out and buys Sony's new 4K UltraHD media player on Amazon and hooks it up to the non-2.2 compliant 4K TV you installed last month, they won't be able to watch it. Who do you think they're going to blame when that happens?
It's also important to understand that HDCP 2.2 is a physical chipset, which means it requires a hardware upgrade, not a software upgrade to become compatible. That makes it even more important that you do your research now, because in most cases, if you want to upgrade a product to HDCP 2.2, it's going to require a whole new purchase.
At this point, given what we now know, it doesn't make any sense to install 4K products into a residential environment that don't take 2.2 into consideration. You're simply setting yourself up for some serious headaches down the road. I know, because we're already experiencing calls on the matter from dealers who are finding this out the hard way.
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Trent Mulligan Just Add Power: Manufacturer - HD over IP solutions www.justaddpower.com | [Link: twitter.com] | [Link: facebook.com] |
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| Post 2 made on Thursday December 11, 2014 at 14:05 |
3PedalMINI Loyal Member |
Joined: Posts: | July 2009 7,860 |
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Thanks for you post. Exactly the reason im still telling my clients to stick with 1080p panels until everything gets figured out and standardized.
Sucks right now because we have a pre-wire going in soon and i know the client will want 4k down the line but he doesn't want to delay the project for 4k hardware. Pre-wiring this with CAT6 to every panel and fiber to the main locations JUST INCASE
HDMI 2.2 and 4k scares the crap out of me :(
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The Bitterness of Poor Quality is Remembered Long after the Sweetness of Price is Forgotten! - Benjamin Franklin |
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| Post 3 made on Thursday December 11, 2014 at 14:19 |
Audiophiliac Super Member |
Joined: Posts: | August 2006 3,294 |
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Thanks Trent. I was already fully aware of this issue and have it in my head any time anyone asks about video distribution or system upgrades. I would really hate to be the guy who recently sold a 16x16 or more "4k" HDMI distribution and did not have this conversation with the client beforehand. It is what it is. We should not have been surprised that it was not backwards compatible. Nothing is these days. Game systems, computers, phones, tablets, etc. When the software exceeds the hardware's capability, you need new hardware. Not that this is exactly the same as that, but they must have made some pretty drastic changes to require a whole new chipset to be designed.
What I cannot believe is how many manufacturers missed the boat figuratively speaking...and maybe even literally. Was it just unlucky or poor timing of the 2.2 announcement/finalization/release vs. product design/engineering/tooling/manufacturing/release timelines? Very few AVRs have HDCP 2.2. Even fewer HDMI switchers and extenders. I do believe most 4k TVs from the major manufacturers have at least 1 HDCP 2.2 enabled input.
Thanks again for bringing this to the top of the heap.
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"When I eat, it is the food that is scared." - Ron Swanson |
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| OP | Post 4 made on Thursday December 11, 2014 at 14:45 |
Active Member |
Joined: Posts: | November 2009 610 |
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On December 11, 2014 at 14:19, Audiophiliac said...
Not that this is exactly the same as that, but they must have made some pretty drastic changes to require a whole new chipset to be designed.
HDCP 2.2 provides 10 times the encryption as its predecessor, so it's a pretty serious upgrade. This is essentially Hollywood's way of telling their shareholders that its 4K content is going to be protected. What I cannot believe is how many manufacturers missed the boat figuratively speaking...and maybe even literally. Was it just unlucky or poor timing of the 2.2 announcement/finalization/release vs. product design/engineering/tooling/manufacturing/release timelines? Very few AVRs have HDCP 2.2. Even fewer HDMI switchers and extenders. I do believe most 4k TVs from the major manufacturers have at least 1 HDCP 2.2 enabled input. Agreed. I think most tier 1 displays have a 2.2 enabled input, per your statement, but I would make sure of that before installing. AVR's have been slow to adopt, but they're out there and becoming more and more prevalent. Matrix switches are a different ball game. As far as I know, we'll be the only compliant line when we come out of the gate in January. I have to give our engineers kudos for recognizing the seriousness of this threat and taking the necessary action. Designing it was no easy feat. It took a very capable staff the better part of the year to get it done.
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Trent Mulligan Just Add Power: Manufacturer - HD over IP solutions www.justaddpower.com | [Link: twitter.com] | [Link: facebook.com] |
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| Post 5 made on Thursday December 11, 2014 at 14:52 |
GotGame Super Member |
Joined: Posts: | February 2002 4,008 |
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I wonder if HDFury will have a box? As HDMI rolled in, they kept analog switchers alive for years.
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I may be schizophrenic, but at least I have each other. |
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| Post 6 made on Thursday December 11, 2014 at 14:52 |
FP Crazy Super Member |
Joined: Posts: | June 2003 2,914 |
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The problem, as Hiess wrote in last month's column in Res Systems, is that most 2.2 ports aren't full bandwidth to support 4:4:4 and 24 bit color, no?
And we can't blame it on the main mfgs (AVR, TV,s etc.) as they are beholden to the hdmi chip makers (or card makers) which aren't producing them yet...or at least not as of a few months ago.
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Chasing Ernie's post count, one useless post at a time. |
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| Post 7 made on Thursday December 11, 2014 at 16:44 |
Ernie Gilman Yes, That Ernie! |
Joined: Posts: | December 2001 30,076 |
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HDCP 2.2 provides 10 times the encryption as its predecessor, so it's a pretty serious upgrade. This is essentially Hollywood's way of telling their shareholders that its 4K content is going to be protected. Do pirates record, then distribute bitstreams, such that 4K can be protected from piracy? I keep reading that they NEVER DO THAT, but instead copy and distribute files. Stop making movies as computer files and video piracy will be finished. There's this stuff called film, that has much higher resolution than even 4K, that could not simply be copied via wire or internet, that had the burden of making a physical copy to pirate it. Too bad that's not available.
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A good answer is easier with a clear question giving the make and model of everything. "The biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place." -- G. “Bernie” Shaw |
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| Post 8 made on Thursday December 11, 2014 at 17:12 |
Archibald "Harry" Tuttle Advanced Member |
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**Start Preface
Going forward, any source delivering HDCP content at native 4K resolutions is mandated to carry the new 2.2 chipset. These sources will NOT work with equipment unless they're also enabled with HDCP 2.2. In other words, everything in the chain after the source also needs to be HDCP 2.2 enabled (AVR's, matrix switches, extenders, displays, etc), or you won't get a picture.
Does that mean all the HDMI cables need to be HDCP 2.2 also? This is all starting to sound like a cluster fcku.
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I came into this game for the action, the excitement. Go anywhere, travel light, get in, get out, wherever there's AV trouble, a man alone. |
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| OP | Post 9 made on Thursday December 11, 2014 at 17:24 |
Active Member |
Joined: Posts: | November 2009 610 |
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On December 11, 2014 at 17:12, Archibald "Harry" Tuttle said...
Does that mean all the HDMI cables need to be HDCP 2.2 also?
This is all starting to sound like a cluster fcku. Cables aren't an HDCP enabled product, so no. Anything considered an encoder or a decoder...pretty much like what I specified in my examples earlier.
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Trent Mulligan Just Add Power: Manufacturer - HD over IP solutions www.justaddpower.com | [Link: twitter.com] | [Link: facebook.com] |
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| OP | Post 10 made on Thursday December 11, 2014 at 17:37 |
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Joined: Posts: | November 2009 610 |
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On December 11, 2014 at 14:52, GotGame said...
I wonder if HDFury will have a box? As HDMI rolled in, they kept analog switchers alive for years. LOL....a valid question. Totally illegal, but valid nonetheless.
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Trent Mulligan Just Add Power: Manufacturer - HD over IP solutions www.justaddpower.com | [Link: twitter.com] | [Link: facebook.com] |
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| OP | Post 11 made on Thursday December 11, 2014 at 17:48 |
Active Member |
Joined: Posts: | November 2009 610 |
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On December 11, 2014 at 14:52, FP Crazy said...
The problem, as Hiess wrote in last month's column in Res Systems, is that most 2.2 ports aren't full bandwidth to support 4:4:4 and 24 bit color, no?
I believe that's correct. Our new line will do 4K 60 4:2:0. And we can't blame it on the main mfgs (AVR, TV,s etc.) as they are beholden to the hdmi chip makers (or card makers) which aren't producing them yet...or at least not as of a few months ago. Don't confuse HDMI 2.0 with HDCP 2.2. They're totally different beings. HDCP 2.2 chips are available, but your products have to be engineered around those chips, and that takes time and money.
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Trent Mulligan Just Add Power: Manufacturer - HD over IP solutions www.justaddpower.com | [Link: twitter.com] | [Link: facebook.com] |
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| Post 12 made on Thursday December 11, 2014 at 18:42 |
FP Crazy Super Member |
Joined: Posts: | June 2003 2,914 |
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I believe that's correct. Our new line will do 4K 60 4:2:0.
Don't confuse HDMI 2.0 with HDCP 2.2. They're totally different beings. HDCP 2.2 chips are available, but your products have to be engineered around those chips, and that takes time and money. I was more referring to AVRs. Nearly all AVRs utilize 3rd party hdmi boards, many of those boards are even used by different mfgs. So, if those board mfgs are not up to date with all the implementation (chips, firmware, etc.), the AVR mfgs can only sit and wait. And I shiver to think the growing pains we CIs will experience with HDCP 2.2 & hdmi 2.0 Gen 1 boards. I need a drink.
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Chasing Ernie's post count, one useless post at a time. |
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| Post 13 made on Thursday December 11, 2014 at 19:52 |
Archibald "Harry" Tuttle Advanced Member |
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Cables aren't an HDCP enabled product, so no. Anything considered an encoder or a decoder...pretty much like what I specified in my examples earlier. Thanks for the clarification. I try to be a late adopter when it comes to this stuff. But I know some clients are all excited with the drop in 4k display pricing... they don't understand there's more to it than just buying that new 4k TV, get Harry to come over and plug it up, and sit back and slobber on themselves.
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I came into this game for the action, the excitement. Go anywhere, travel light, get in, get out, wherever there's AV trouble, a man alone. |
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| Post 14 made on Thursday December 11, 2014 at 20:17 |
Daniel Tonks Wrangler of Remotes |
Joined: Posts: | October 1998 28,766 |
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As far as I understand...
Current HDCP 2.2-compatible chipsets only have the bandwidth necessary to support up to 4k @ 60hz @ 4:2:0.
At this particular moment in time, anything advertising 4k @ 60hz @ 4:4:4 is only using HDCP 2.0 (newer chipsets will be out in 2015). For example:
8 HDMI Inputs, 3 HDMI Outputs with 4K Ultra HD 60 Hz Pass-through; 4:4:4 Pure Color Equipped with an advanced video processor section, the AV7702 features 8 HDMI inputs, including 1 conveniently located on the front panel, and features 4K Ultra HD 60 Hz full rate pass-through for the next generation of ultra-high definition content. The video section is also compatible with full 4:4:4 Pure Color sub-sampling, another feature of the latest HDMI specification. The video section also features SD and HD upconversion and transcoding to 4K Ultra HD. The two HDMI output sockets for the main room and a third dedicated for Multi-room application handle almost all of today’s Ultra HD formats.
Which means it's HDCP 2.0, which means it's going to be as useful as a bag of squirrels for processing true 4k content when it comes out. I sure hope the first generation of 4k BD players have dual HDMI outputs, one for bitstreaming audio to a receiver and a HDCP 2.2 one for video direct to a 4k TV.
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| Post 15 made on Thursday December 11, 2014 at 20:19 |
tweeterguy Loyal Member |
Joined: Posts: | June 2005 7,713 |
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Great post Trent; thanks for starting the thread.
Happen to have a list of devices that are currently HDCP 2.2?
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