System startup does not gack. It only happens after the system is on and it does it regardless of me sending TV power/input commands or not.

Shooting in the dark here. I've never played with a new Sony TV!

Could it be a handshake issue with Your Denon 4311 which is still using HDMI 1.4 and the Sony TV (you didn't specify model #) which I believe is HDMI 2.0?

Before you do anything else, you really should try the factory IR remote.


#3: "serial run is long." There are limits to serial run lengths, mostly attributable to noise pickup. Noise usually has some element of random. Is it reasonable to expect that an overlong run will cause very specific problems to occur? Every time? Problems that are related to the manner in which we mentally categorize the switching?  It seems that such problems could be consistent but would appear to be a more random collection of actions.

#4: That would be simply amazing. IR signals are sequential, and longish wire won't make some of the electrons go faster than others. Just to get a sense of the timing versus length issues, let's do some estimating:
Light moves at about 186,000 miles per second
Light goes about 186 miles per millisecond
Current flows more slowly on wire; say at c/2, so let's say current moves 93 miles per msec.
IR is modulated around 40 kHz = 40 times per millisecond
So one cycle of IR modulation represents a wire length of about 93/40 = 2.325 miles = more than 12,000 feet.
Actual IR code takes many, many cycles of modulation.  If your wiring is anywhere in the neighborhood of many times 12,000 feet from point to point, a problem might possibly occur from "jamming" (no definition given) or interfering, if there happen to be fast electrons and slow electrons in the universe.


#1 proves that there are no "jamming" or interference problems with the RS232 itself.
#2 says something I did not notice before: that the problem does not occur every time.
#3 says "seems," and "most if not all the time," two phrases that, together, mean you have unreliable manual operation, thus leaving your actual statement unclear.

#4 says that no matter what, you cannot do what you want with RS232, not even with multiple commands: you've always got to go manual.

In total, then, your RS232 does not work properly to control ONLY the Denon, and manual control is not consistent.  It's time to fix or toss the Denon.

Long run or not, I have experienced issues with a single UTP cable carrying multiple IR signals in both directions and having signal corruption problems. The last time this happened I had to reconfigure the ground, 12v and signal wires to keep the signal and ground off the same pair.


By jamming I meant an IR signal issuing during CEC communications or an IR signal causing a device to blank out for a short period of time.



I only say this because I recall it happening every time but it was not necessarily a full scientific evaluation.


Correct... looks like IR is my only option but the why is what gets me.

I do not recall the Sony model but it is a new TV so I would assume 1.4. There must be something introduced by the serial connection or the serial circuitry is bad because the handshake work fine switching manual and I suspect by IR as well.

Update...

I returned to site.

I failed to test it again before I did anything (stupid mistake).

I added IR codes along side my serial commands in the existing macros.

I grabbed an IR emitter and was intending to connect an emitter for the AVR and disconnect the serial.

Before I did this, I picked up the remote and everything worked fine.

I am not sure if the uncovered emitter from the Blu-ray was being seen by the AVR (the IR is common on the RTI processor High out) and that is what made the difference.

So... Serial is still active, there is an emitter issuing AVR input codes and may be seen by the AVR and all work fine. I bucked my concerns and walked away!

I will test again this week.

Please explain "multiple IR signals in both directions." You mentioned commands that were tightly sequenced, but going in both directions is a whole new wrinkle.

I envision the few years that Pioneer thought it would be cool to modulate their IR signals at 1.125 mHz. You'd send a PLAY command for the LD, but the TV could see it, and would translate it into a 40 kHz command... that was fine. But a PAUSE command would be picked up at 1.125 mHz by the laserdisc player, then a quarter second later the translated command would come out of the TV and go to the LD player. The net result was that a PAUSE command caused about a 1/4 second pause, then we were back in play again.

What in your system is issuing IR commands at one location and sending them, say, upstairs to downstairs, WHILE commands are coming from downstairs and going upstairs?

If that's what is happening, it would tend to show that your serial commands are at fault.

I know you say that they're not, and you're certain of that fact, but reality can be a bitch sometimes.... :-)

I am using all pairs on the CAT5. Three conductors for the RTI RM433 output back to the processor, Serial from the processor out to the local AVR and IR from the processor out to the local components. Wonky yes. It was manageable with just the RM433 and IR but after an AVR upgrade I added the serial.

Yeah... the serial strings themselves are not the problem. They are the same serial strings I have used for years from the same drivers I have used many times. The AVR is even responding to the serial input commands. Power on/off works fine and the input commands register correctly except that the HDMI will not sync correctly. I suspect something electrically related that is freaking out the HDMI video board.