I am planning on using Verizon Fios for TV/internet/phone, but have read that the verizon supplied router is required between all the set top boxes.

So how is everyone handling this while still "owning the network" with a third party router?
I have multiple IP cameras and access points and based off past experience do not trust a verizon router to be the backbone of the network.

I was thinking about putting the Fios router on a separate VLAN on the third party router, but am not sure if this will cause Fios TV features to be lost (e.g VOD, caller ID, etc).

Any help is greatly appreciated.

Setup up DMZ on Fios router, more info here ( mikrotik as an example ) [Link: networkingforintegrators.com]

Ok. So does the DMZ method will still allow all the fios TV functions such as VOD, guide, caller ID to remain intact?

So the third party router would handle all local IP assignments?

It seems like the verizon router might still try to assign local IP addresses and cause conflicts with the third party router. There would be a double NAT situation going on.

Have Verizon activate the Catx output on their ONT. Run that right into you own router. Give the Verizon router a static address and set the DHCP pool for a small as there are cable boxes in the system.

It has been a while, but I have done this several times with no issues.

You have to keep fios router in order to maintain some of those services intact. I have made a mistake once by disabling all features on fios router, including DHCP sever. As a result all cable boxes , vod etc. stopped working. We always install our own routers ( Ubiquiti ) and switches, that handle client's network and all of their devices. When properly setup I.e bridge mode / DMZ you will avoid double NAT and improve overall performance.

^^^do this

Exactly, FiOS router stays connect to the RF plant for MoCa and Wlan port to your switch.

So are you saying that the verizon router is connected via category cable to my router, or is the verizon router receiving a connection via the ONT coax?

I don't think the ONT can output via coax and cat5e/6 simultaneously.

I also thought that the verizon router has to be the first point of contact with the ONT in order to use the verizon interface to validate a connection to the internet.

EDIT: this might be what you are describing, but it looks quite complicated requiring the use of a 3rd router.
[Link: dslreports.com]

I think I might just take my chances and use the verizon router as the back bone of my network. I only have 3 ip cameras, a couple of access points, and a modest RTI system.

We just have Springs throw a Microtik behind the POS from Verizon. He does his magic, and it's all good.

Yes, the Verizon router will just be another device on your network. Obviously make sure its IP address and the DHCP server addresses it gives out are outside of your DHCP range.

I have done this several times with Fortinet routers with full access to all cable functions. I also had full VPN access to the network. Client's had access to their cameras/DVR remotely as I had access to all network devices on my Crestron systems.

Can you elaborate on who or what Springs is?

Springs (Chris) is a VERY knowledgeabe network guy on the forums (not sure if he is on RC or not). He builds networks for a lot of guys that are pretty much bulletproof.

I've watched this thread progress throughout the day today, and I feel the need to interject, clear up some details.

The verizon router can pull its wan connection from either the ethernet or the coax. If you are running above 75 Mb down, your router has to pull its wan from the ethernet, requiring you (if you have set-top boxes) to have both the ethernet and coax connected.

Do you need a verizon router if you have verizon video services. No. Not at all. I can confirm this (at least in my market). However, you will need a verizon moca piece that the STB will end up talking to for their, well, their everything.

[Link: actiontec.com] This piece will allow your boxes to talk without the verizon router. (There maybe an updated model).

___________________________________________________________

Regarding two routers:

I don't know who Springs is.  Apparently a network demi-God.  I'm glad he can get it to work bulletproof.  I wish my company gave me the time (and compensation) to fully integrate two routers into an existing network.  It's a horrible idea.  I realize, saying that, that a riot will start in the minds of many who read it.

Look.  If you touch the network, you own the network.  I have this conversation with my partner all of the time.  We will have clients tell us that their network is solid and they have someone who manages it.  However, if I make a dhcp reservation or set a port forward or change a dhcp range, I have touched the network.  What's the difference between setting a new subnet and setting a port forward?  It's the same number of button presses.  You touch it, you own it.  End of story.

It really doesn't matter what router you put behind the verizon.  It can be the $9 dlink Tiger Direct B-stock router or the big boy (name your brand) expensive router.  At the end of the day, dmz or no, it still needs to route it wan to the lan of the verizon router, marking a choke point.  On top of that, most guys I know can barely manage a single router config, much less having to do it twice.  Adding that next hop also has the potential to degrade your performance.  I realize we are talking ms difference here, but really, what is your additional router doing that the verizon can't?

It's needless complexity to the network.  It's a harder config for you as the installer, it's a harder config for the next guy to come out and service it (as much as we all love to thing we hold onto our customer forever, I fixed 3 jobs last week from 3 of my competitors, all networking issues), and I have seen the full gamut of stupid networking decisions.

It makes sense to add your own switch.  Make it multi-layer if you are feeling bold.  It makes sense to manage the wifi (we all know ios is controlling everything now or your control system has a wifi remote).  It makes sense to add your own l2 switches for your control system nodes and a/v gear.  Access points and AP managers are all perfectly logical.

To scatter things further by adding one more router makes me scratch my head.  Why?  If you can't make your verizon (or other ISP router) do what you need to do to get your job done, then you need to get out of the game.  I'm sorry.  It's that simple.  If you can figure out how to dmz verizon and port forward your ubiquiti, then spend some time learning the ins and out of the verizon.  I have manuals from every rev you can think of.  Here's the most common variety:

[Link: dropbox.com]

What are you going to do?  Leave all the customer's exist everything downstream from the actiontech and leave your gear down stream from your router?  Again, one more hop to get information transferred.  The efficiency is wasted, the complexity increased, and the performance gain is negligible at best.

Note:  I fully understand this is probably something everyone will have an opinion on.  And really, I do not mean to start any sort of bad blood, mud slinging, or otherwise.  It's just my opinion, and I am not trying to start a ridiculous back and forth like we are talking about how good Fujitsu TVs are. I just think dual routing is a poor poor idea and a total waste of time.  It takes a high degree of skill to do it right, the double NAT issue is ridiculous, and one day your ISP is going to come out and switch out their router and mar the whole thing up.  You might as well Keep It Simple........

The two router scheme is keeping things very simple.

We make one DMZ in the Verizon router to get the Mikrotik in the game and then we shut off the Verizon wireless. We have a custom script that gets our Unifi AWS server deploying the access points and Springs will soon have a custom script that opens and forwards all of our standard port. Lather rinse repeat.

The provider router is for all intents ignored. resetting the provider router screws everything up but if it is only a DMZ then it is a quick fix.

We own the network, we sell the value of off site monitoring and troubleshooting and get paid to deploy a decent network.

im kind of lost on your post Sys? your saying the providers modem/router is fine?

If you assume that you are grossly miss informed, however I think you have a better understanding of networks then that so maybe it was just the way you worded it.

Although the verizon modem/router combo is nicer then what the cable companies provide it cannot be used to base our systems on, especially if there is an automation system that is entirely network required (TC-C4 etc)

I can confirm in my house when we had fios TV/Internet you can do without their provided modem, you just have to buy one of those moca adapters SYS linked to it worked great for the time we had it!

However be prepared, getting that ethernet port turned on is an uphill battle, i mean serious uphill battle. And then you will also need to make sure you get someone on the other end that understands you can turn in the modem/router WITHOUT cancelling service, most dont understand it.

FIOS is a complete pain in the dick hole to deal with if you want to entirely take over the network.

One last thing, you better hope you can get a cat5 from the ONT to your networking equipment