I need this to stay anonymous , so this is a this is my first day post.

I have been at the same company for over 20 years and am thinking about a change. I Love what I do but am questioning about where I do it. The company is heading in a direction that I am not sure I want to follow.

Due to an non compete I either have to move or change careers, not sure what to do. The last several people to leave all changed careers.

Not sure where I am going with this, but what would you do?

Opinions please!

I will assume that you are an installer but i guess you could work for the NSA grinding those red and blue x's in front of peoples property for FEMA's death camps. My response is based on you being an installer, programmer or in sales. Some piece of the labor involved in making an automation/entertainment system happen.

If you are an installer, programmer or in sales their non-compete is usually non-sense. They can't copyright or register or patent your labor. You don't have to change careers. Don't steal intellectual property (cad drawings, programming code, project photos etc) ,tools, parts or clients on your way out the door and go wherever you like or start your own company. You can even compete against them on projects with clients they have previously worked for. Assuming you also live in a free country.

Especially in California. Almost impossible to get a non compete enforced. It falls under a statute known as "restraint of trade" meaning that this is the skill that you have developed which puts food on your table and a roof over your head. Like Mac said, as long as you don't leave with any of their property, it's a free country.

I thought non-competes had been ruled pretty much illegal except in a few cases like acting and radio. And even then they have to have a time limit.

Seems like it should be illegal but it really depends on how many lobbying dollars are behind it. If everyone just conducted themselves ethically we wouldn't have these problems.

Good:
"You aren't happy here and want to open your own business or go work for someone else? It was great having you on the team, good luck with your future venture. Maybe we can work together in the future. If it doesn't work out you will always have a job here."

Bad:
"I just hired you, we just met and i want to start this relationship by having you sign this document because i think all employees are thieves. If you ever grow tired of my paranoia i will have my lawyers hunt you down and pound you into the ground."

One other big thing with non-competes is if they have any chance at being enforced is that they must be presented at the time of being hired or congruent with some form of significant change (employee to director/partner status) as there can be other legal/dissolution implications at that point.

They can not be forced, but a company may choose not to hire without one signed...depending on where you live/work, you can be fired for not agreeing to one though too.

What can be enforceable as stated is that you might be required to sign a non-compete similar to a restraining order where you can not initiate contact with certain clients for x period of time (who currently patron your existing company). However, there is a grey area as clients have the right to reach out to you directly and decide who they want to do business with.

The other big caveat with non-competes is that the company has to prove damages and that they have a track record of enforcing said non-compete equally (regardless of its legality in general) with other individuals who have left.

Non-Disclosures are a separate issue to be concerned with and are much more legally binding so pay attention if any apply in your situation.

Maybe the company is heading in a direction away from where it has been, and you want to keep doing the same thing?


As has been said, a non-compete can easily be considered restraint of trade in exactly the case you're talking about, where to honor the questionable idea of "non-compete" you'd have to give up your livelihood. The thing is, if you're good at something extremely rare, a non-compete would make you starve, so it's not enforceable; if you're good at something that thousands of people do, then your competition with them would b a drop in the bucket and therefore non-enforceable.


I'd look seriously into doing the same kind of thing, but at another company. Try not to choose the single largest competitor of your present company, if you can. There's no reason to piss them off if you don't have to!

Make an appointment with a labor lawyer and have him review the agreements. Above all, be totally honest about everything you do.

If this company isn't the first for whom you have done this kind of work, a non-compete is probably moot- you did it before, I don't know who would agree that they can keep you from doing it after.

I left a company in about '06 and they wanted me to sign a no-compete. My response was "You do realize that I was in business for myself before I came here, right?". He was not happy. OTOH, he may not have known because I didn't interview with him and I doubt the other owner mentioned it. Proprietary techniques, tools and information should remain confidential, IMO, but skills go with the person. They may have provided training, but that doesn't mean they should be able to restrict what you do after you leave their company. If what this company does is unique and there's no competition, going out on your own to do the same is another issue, but if you have a better way to do this work, seek legal advice.

Have you made your concerns known? What was their response?

I would agree with all the above, but at the end of the day, if the company chooses to spend the dollars trying to enforce the non-compete, you will be forced to spend dollars defending yourself. Hopefully you have a good attorney and live in a state where you can then turn around and sue them for legal fees after the non-compete is ruled unenforceable.

Remember, words are cheap and it isn't real until a suit is actually filed. Even a letter from their attorney means nothing until an actual suit is filed.

Maybe your current company can send you the work they sound like they are getting away from? Can you work as a freelancer for them? Or can you negotiate a higher salary/pay, time off etc…. to compensate for you not to leave?

It takes a lot of money to train anyone in this industry and if you have been there for 20 years, then it would seem to me that you may be one of the most valuable employees they have.

If you're heading down the path of starting a company, be very careful about accepting a client that you have serviced with your current company. Getting clients for yourself is more difficult but leaves you blameless. Don't take a company tool, client or employee with you.

When I started my own business, I took a part-time job $15 / hr installing low voltage wiring for a huge hospital expansion. They needed me anytime I was available and I used it to fill any blanks in my schedule. Eventually, I never went to the part-time job anymore.

If I have any advise, do what it takes to make a living while you build your business.

The bigger question is why are they heading down a different path and have you expressed your concerns (rhetorical). (Admitting on a public forum) We've struggled over the past trying to manage our work load and trying to find someone who fits your values is difficult. I've seen a handful of people come and go and none of them truly fit in to what we are creating and the one(s) that I want to work for us wouldn't want to come into the chaos at this time. My point is, my lead installer has had to deal with a lot of s#$t over the past couple of years because of the lack of help. And if he was pissed or wanted out I would hope that he would try to work with me to fix it vs. just bailing. Express your frustrations so that you give them a chance to correct the problem or help them come up with solutions on how to be better. Nothing frustrates me more than when people sit back and complain but don't do anything to better their situation or improve things. I'm not saying your are complaining and I'm not saying you haven't already tried. I'm just saying it would be worth a little effort if you haven't already given it.

That's BS. You can't steal company assets, employees, clients, tools, or proprietary information.

You can, however, tell employees and clients that you are leaving to start your own business. They can, at their discretion, initiate a conversation to either work for you or hire you. At that point, you can continue the conversation.

Don't initiate conversations with clients, let them do it. If they don't then you're done and say goodbye (but leave contact info). If they start a conversation and ask you to consider working for them, any Non-Compete is done.

There is life after the Big Company. And frequently, after the move, you ask yourself why you didn't do it sooner.
 

I'd give myself a good 30-40% chance of guessing the company.

Talk to a lawyer experienced with non-competes.

You may be able to find better pay, and a better job, in another city, if you have the skills. 20 years is a long time. You may have hit a point where your employer can't afford to keep increasing your salary, anyway.

Most non-competes are just intimidating paper........................

Be fair to your employer,do not take ANYTHING as others have said.

When you have looked around and found some other opportunities, have a sit down with your current company and give them the low down. Twenty years at one place adds value. Try and let them know that you care about the company. After twenty years, if you do not have some say so about the direction of the company, then it is time to move on.