Is this definitely the case? I thought I read somewhere that the rational for this was to prevent low voltage from the RS232 port from arcing across the 3.5mm plug... seems highly unlikely. If this isn't the case, why are sleeved emitters necessary on ports 7-12?

Cheers

If you dont use a sleeved emitter you are putting a short across the rs232 tx / rx terminals. It will eventually kill rs232 on that port ( at least thats what URC says )

CYA...

In CCP, uncheck or disable Serial (actually click on the port in the simulator and I think it's where you set baud rate) That MAY stop the short. I thought a trainer said you can cheat it that way at least until you can get your hands on some sleeved emitters.

Sounds like URC tried to make the MSC-400 bite off more than it could chew. They don't have enough dedicated jacks on that unit to do what it can do with standard parts, so they've created a Frankenstein's monster that comes with its own set of pitchforks!

It comes with six sleeved emitters, but if the unit is set up with six and then expanded later, how the hell can URC guarantee that the sleeved emitters will be on hand? The Quick Reference says normal IR emitters can be used "temporarily in outputs 7 - 12." Please define temporary and please tell how URC ever had any intent of guaranteeing that the wrong connection was not made.

it doesn't come with any sleeved emitters.  they need to be purchased separately.  
my installers mess this one up all the time.  i put right in our wiring schematics, notes about using sleeved emitters, and they still use standard emitters on 7-12.  we haven't damaged anything yet, but I usually catch it right away and have them replaced before the boat leaves.

i've always wondered what temporary means as well.  

Then this is a screwed design. There's nothing about the mechanics of putting it together that forces you to use the sleeved emitters that you don't have anyway. Before I looked into the product, I wrote something like:

When a manufacturer requires
SOMETHING THAT DOES NOT COME WITH THE UNIT
that must be connected
TO JACKS THAT APPEAR IDENTICAL TO OTHERS WITH SIMILAR PROPERTIES
and that,
IF NOT INSTALLED WILL CAUSE THE UNIT TO BLOW,
after
A TOTALLY UNDEFINED "TEMPORARY" AMOUNT OF TIME,

then they have totally screwed your pooch, making a product that requires someone to constantly hover over it chanting the instructions, just to make sure some new installer does not later hook the thing up the way it looks like it should be connected.
 

Our experiences here with those of us who write should teach us that people are not all that impressed by reading notes.  If we sometimes have problems communicating, how about the majority of installers who don't ever write anything?  Are they carefully reading all the notes?  No way.  And URC are idiots for thinking a product and the CIs who buy it will be properly installed when this truth is overlooked.



It means for a limited period of time, not permanent.  Grammar mention here:  "A" and "the" are called articles.  "A" is called an indefinite article because it never pins down what's being discussed.  "A" time is any amount at all.  "The" is a definite article because it points right at what's being discussed.  If "temporary" were the time it takes to do a or b, as opposed to "a" time, then we'd have an idea how long it will be before the MSC-400 gets damaged.

I had a need to use a 7th IR port and did some digging. Using unsleeved emitters should be OK if used on only 1 port - 2 if you choose carefully.

According to  the MSC-400 Reference Manual (I couldn't find it on universal remote.com)

[Link: mito-oem.com]

The 4-circuit jack used for ports 7-12 are wired
Tip: IR signal
Ring 1: Serial TX
Ring 2: Serial RX
Sleeve: Gnd


Inserting a standard tip/sleeve plug will short RS-232 TX and RX to ground. Shorting RX to ground obviously isn't an issue. The SN75188 TX driver chips permit one output to be shorted. Ports 7, 8, 9 and 10 are on one chip and ports 11 and 12 are on a second chip. You can use one unsleeved emitter from each chip.

It would also be possible to replace the tip-sleeve plug on the emitter with a 4-circuit version and leave ring 1 and 2 disconnected.

Why isn't all available and relevant information on the website? I just spent ten minutes looking for it just to confirm the above.  This is sooooo unprofessional!

because they tell you to use sleeved emitters.  why would they want to tell you how to hack something together and cause possible confusion, when they have a part designed for the task?

the msc400 probably won't be around much longer anyway and that is the only base station that requires sleeved emitters on specific ports.

But there is a REFERENCE MANUAL that explains in detail what you can get away with.


This whole thing just supports the idea that this was a crappy design. It has to be made so that actual human beings will use it properly!

A decent design either
*is easy to use by people who have reasonable habits of using standard products, such as non-sleeved connectors;
or
*it needs to have full explanations in plain sight as to how to get around the tweaky situation they built into the damn thing in the first place.

There should have been a note in large bold capital letters ON THE BACK OF THE UNIT stating that special connectors must be used for Ports 7 - 12. In addition to that manual being on the website. Or, as I said before, they should not have tried to get this amount of back panel real estate to do all the things they want it to do.

there is a quick reference card included in the box with each msc400 that explains the need for sleeved emitters.  you want them to modify an old piece that they are going to disco soon so people that ignore the cards don't screw it up?

[Link: universalremote.com]

page 2
 

So by actual humans do you mean end-users who purchase the product on Amazon and come here asking for software?

You yourself asked several months ago if sitting in a URC training all day was going to be worth your time. I think this example right here would answer that question. In the last 6 years this piece has been available and there was a training on it (at least once a year in my market) that detail has been pointed out.

Perhaps if you require detailed documentation in each and every box of each and every product that requires no extracurricular training seminars there are things you can source from Amazon which do that for you, the end-user: Logitech Harmony, Monoprice, all home-theaters-in-a-box.

I am pissed that my Honda didn't include a OBD2 connector and a comprehensive list of error codes in the glovebox manual for the same reasons you have listed.

That is totally fair up to a point. To complete the picture, are you a certified mechanic who could only find that information in a training class because, though there's a document that lists the error codes and you can get the connector from Honda, there is no place where you can get that document? That's more nearly a parallel case.

or you are a mechanic who has to be spoon fed everything and can't be bothered to actually read the insert card that comes in the box.