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OT: General Job Searches: what good are...
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| Topic: | OT: General Job Searches: what good are resumes? This thread has 16 replies. Displaying posts 1 through 15. |
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| Post 1 made on Thursday May 9, 2013 at 20:51 |
Ernie Gilman Yes, That Ernie! |
Joined: Posts: | December 2001 30,076 |
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I know someone looking for a job, and I'm sure most of you do, too. It's been eons since I needed to put together a resume, and someone I know is wondering: what is appropriate today? This is a person who has sold A/V, been a store manager, been a phone company rep for nearly ten years, and whom I find astoundingly astute at clearing the debris away from a complicated problem, going to the root of it, and coming up with a solution.
There are all sorts of guidance available that I am sure will give good advice regarding what kind of resume to create for the 1980s, maybe even the 1990s. But there are so many jobs that are so different these days, I wonder if the resume needs to be different from the old school list of jobs, dates, accomplishments (that always seem to be BS anyway) etc. that were correct in decades past.
What do you think?
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A good answer is easier with a clear question giving the make and model of everything. "The biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place." -- G. “Bernie” Shaw |
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| Post 2 made on Thursday May 9, 2013 at 21:13 |
Hasbeen Loyal Member |
Joined: Posts: | November 2007 5,272 |
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I have to look at them now and again, I hate doing it, but I'm pretty efficient at it. Here are the first things I look for, with this method I can clear out about 90% of the responders. I can clear another 5-7% within one phone call, that leaves me with 3-5% of "prospects".
1. Spelling errors. 2. Too many jobs. 3. Over/Under qualified.
Here's what I like...
1. Don't give me too much. I'm giving your resume less than one minute of my time initially, get down to business. I don't want to hear about your dog, cat, wife, family in Hawaii, your hobbies. Not to be harsh, but I don't give a shit.
2. Keep it simple. Not stupid fonts, no floral pattern paper. If it's a digital copoy like a PDF or Word doc. (either is acceptable to me) make sure it's spaced and formatted properly. Don't think for a second that I'm going to spend 30 minutes of my life looking at some cryptic .doc because your dumb ass doesn't know how to send a file properly through email.
3. If I'm asking for 10 years experience, I'm not going to look at your resume if you have 3 years. However anything over 5 years, I'll glimpse. But it better WOW me. Which means, you better be good at what you do.
I'm not saying be dishonest, but if you're the type of person who likes to change jobs every year, 6 months, or 2 years....you might want to cut back on some of your "experience". It's a sure fire way to get the resume inserted into the circular file.
Give me good hard facts and be able to back it up....If you raised revenue from X to Y in 2 years, when i ask you how you did it...You might want to know exactly how you did it.
If you're in an interview, be yourself. Unless you're a weird s.o.b., in that case be something other than yourself.
Tell your friend that if he/she is actually good at their chosen profession, they've got nothing to worrry about, it will shine through and they'll be hired promptly.
Here's my example. My wife is/was a bank manager. She left work to raise our kids. She didn't work for 15 years. Now that the kids are older she decided to go back to work (this was 2 years ago). She was worried because of the economic mess. She nailed the first job interview she went to at Chase. Why? My wife is an excellent employee. Be good at your job, and you'll have a job.
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| Post 3 made on Thursday May 9, 2013 at 21:30 |
goldenzrule Loyal Member |
Joined: Posts: | July 2007 8,448 |
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The very first thing I look at is not what they have experience in or how long, but how many jobs they have had and how long they were at the jobs. If I see a resume in which they were only with their previous jobs for like a year each, or a couple years, I immediately wonder why. I don't automatically toss them, but that puts them at the end of the pile. I know their may be some qualified people, but if they have a history of leaving jobs after a short period, than it's not what I want.
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| Post 4 made on Friday May 10, 2013 at 01:43 |
BFINN Long Time Member |
Joined: Posts: | April 2003 108 |
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After 12-18 months of partial employment/ partial unemployment( 1st time in 31 years of ALWAYS being gainfully employed and never have needed any sort of unemploymemt assistance) I would have to let you know how the job scene in northern CA has been since 2009. Now unfortunatly I just about know every reputable company in the area or have run into them at one time or another. That being said there are some that I would not work for no matter what(personality/ quality of install differences).
My resume was such that almost met your requirement:
1: I don't provide any personal info that is not necessary- period.
2. Simple plain font, with all info necessary for any respectable HR person to glance at and see hat they need.
3. When it comes to experience, what are you supposed to do when the company is looking for an "installer" and what they are really want is someone that can for lack of a better term" hang and bang" and maybe learn on the job, and that's what they are willing to pay for and that's it. I prefer to show what my qualifications/experience is and let them decide if they are interested or not. I've turned a few jobs because what they wanted was someone with experience but wanted to pay like you had none.
Now that being said I found a job that I thought I might fit in with the crew and fairly quickly found out that not only was I the most experienced technician in the shop, I was called on to so call " train" the guys that were hired at the same time as myself. That was not going to happen for very long as I know very well we were all hired at the same pay scale. I let that go for 2.5 months and it must have obvious to the owner that something was up and after a 30 min. conversation I got a acceptable raise but still below the going rate even at today's rate ( not considering my overall experience level- OH well I can deal). But for me the issue is still that I have to go back and fix the "fast install's" that weren't completly checked out( fine tuning remote programming, rf interference, not setting up IP address's correctly etc.)
Now I"m thankful to have stable employment but I wish I could get an employer to look at my qualifications/ abilities/ experience and not necessarily my "work experience", over the last 20 years I've had just 3 employers so I don't move around a whole lot.
So to anyone who looks at the amount of qualifications/ work experience and automatically disreguards that person because of that you may be missing out on a great long term employee.
But I guess that's what companies are looking for, someone who they might be able to train vs. someone who has training and could assimilate in their operation very easily, I guess us highly trained-experienced workers are just not in demand anymore.
Off my soap box for now.
Barry
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| Post 5 made on Friday May 10, 2013 at 11:54 |
Active Member |
Joined: Posts: | November 2009 610 |
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When I was in the job market years back, I remember being befuddled by the lack of callbacks I was getting for the amount of resumes I was sending out, especially given the amount of experience I had. Then one day I found myself in an interview and the guy showed me the stack of resumes he had received for the position. It was at least six inches thick! There must have been 500 resumes in that pile...for one sales postion in a small-ish company (maybe 20 people). It was painfully obvious why I wasn't getting any calls...
Which kind of goes towards my point. Often times larger companies have software that randomly selects resumes for consideration. That means it doesn't matter how creative it is, if it's not lucky enough to be picked, you're screwed. If a smaller company gets 500 of them like in my case, how do they select? Do they take the first 50 that comes in? The last 50? Blind pick?
I don't know. It's all a crap shoot really, especially when the job market is tough and competitive. I'm in somewhat of a major metropolitan area, which multiplies the competition even more. Having said all that, I still think you have to design a resume with the idea that everyone will see it. I'm all for being creative. Make yourself stand out in the event that your resume IS one that's selected for consideration. There are all kinds of online examples for creative resumes, and it's obviously best if you can tailor it to the position you're looking for.
The key to being creative is to make sure all the relevant information is still there and can be found immediately. It's still important to highlight direct experience. I would imagine that's the first thing any prospective employer looks at. In my case, if I like what I see, I'll take a quick gander at the rest of the "fluff", but only to make sure there are no egregious errors (spelling, grammar, etc), because if there are, I'll throw it directly into the trash or hit the delete button. If you don't have the common sense or courtesy to proof your resume, you have no chance in hell of working for me.
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Trent Mulligan Just Add Power: Manufacturer - HD over IP solutions www.justaddpower.com | [Link: twitter.com] | [Link: facebook.com] |
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| OP | Post 6 made on Friday May 10, 2013 at 12:20 |
Ernie Gilman Yes, That Ernie! |
Joined: Posts: | December 2001 30,076 |
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...only to make sure there are no egregious errors (spelling, grammar, etc), because if there are, I'll throw it directly into the trash or hit the delete button. If you don't have the common sense or courtesy to proof your resume, you have no chance in hell of working for me. This relates perfectly well to my friend's situation, but I've got to say that most of the actual installers I know could not pass your test here. There are many kinds of intelligence, but spelling makes no sense at all and I've seen some messed-up spellcheck dictionaries! My best friend's kick-ass system for Nobu Malibu is mentioned at [Link: content.yudu.com]... but when he occasionally uses the word "whom," it's wrong EVERY time!
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A good answer is easier with a clear question giving the make and model of everything. "The biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place." -- G. “Bernie” Shaw |
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| Post 7 made on Friday May 10, 2013 at 13:07 |
Active Member |
Joined: Posts: | November 2009 610 |
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On May 10, 2013 at 12:20, Ernie Gilman said...
This relates perfectly well to my friend's situation, but I've got to say that most of the actual installers I know could not pass your test here. Yeah, I suspect a lot of people couldn't pass the test. But that's still no excuse for a resume full of grammatical oversights (or any at all, for that matter). That's the very first lesson in Resume Writing 101. There's too many tools at our disposal today to let that happen. Plus, there's still the good ol' fashioned method of simply handing it over to family and friends for review. But then again, maybe you'll get lucky and the guy doing the hiring wouldn't notice a spelling error if it was highlighted in yellow. Not a chance I'd be willing to take, but to each his own...
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Trent Mulligan Just Add Power: Manufacturer - HD over IP solutions www.justaddpower.com | [Link: twitter.com] | [Link: facebook.com] |
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| Post 8 made on Friday May 10, 2013 at 13:25 |
ceied Loyal Member |
Joined: Posts: | February 2002 5,742 |
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I applied for a position, and was told 800 plus people applied for said position. from the people i talk to, on average 500 people apply for an open position. i had a manufacturer send me an email saying over 2000 people applied for the position. thats crazy the other one i like... we are not actually firing people, we just want to see what kind of talent is on the street. but the economy is better!
Last edited by ceied on May 10, 2013 13:33.
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Ed will be known as the Tiger Woods of the integration business, followed closely with the renaming of his company to "Hotties A/V". The tag line will be "We like big racks and tight holes"... |
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| Post 9 made on Friday May 10, 2013 at 14:06 |
bcf1963 Super Member |
Joined: Posts: | September 2004 2,767 |
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On May 10, 2013 at 12:20, Ernie Gilman said...
This relates perfectly well to my friend's situation, but I've got to say that most of the actual installers I know could not pass your test here. There are many kinds of intelligence, but spelling makes no sense at all and I've seen some messed-up spellcheck dictionaries! My best friend's kick-ass system for Nobu Malibu is mentioned at [Link: content.yudu.com]... but when he occasionally uses the word "whom," it's wrong EVERY time! Part of what I look for in anyone I want to work with, is if they recognize their strengths and weaknesses. We all have them, and it is fine to not be great at everything. The thing I do look for is their ability to recognize a weakness, and then be able to work around it when necessary. If a person presenting a resume to me cannot figure out how to spell and grammer check the document, I doubt they'll have the ability to work around their other weaknesses... which means that I'll have to pick up their slack. That's why such resumes go into the circular file! A resume for someone with years of experience should be 2 pages at most. I personally have had the most success with Resumes that are targeted. I figure out what I would want to do at a company, and then send a resume targeted at doing that for them. The resume discusses what I want to do for the company, and how I feel that would be of value to them. A resume is all about sales. Figure out what the customer wants, and then figure out how what you want to sell them fits those needs/wants. Don't forget that many times they don't know everything they want, and the ability to tell them you can do those things, and why they want them, can be what gets the job. I highly suggest networking. Calling people and getting together for lunch, or a 10 minute phone call. The contacts don't need to be hiring, you just need to let them know you are looking, and then ask for their help! Tell them if they hear of a company looking for someone, or if they see a company that has more work than people to do it all. Don't just network at companies who might hire you, how about the distributor you bought from at the last place you worked? Don't forget electronic social networking, like LinkedIn. My present job found me based on what I had in my profile there.
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| Post 10 made on Friday May 10, 2013 at 14:28 |
BigPapa Super Member |
Joined: Posts: | October 2005 3,139 |
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Get everything on one page. Don't boast too much and spend too much time blowing up your accolades.
I recall a response to a resume I sent many years back. Essentially said 'You seem to move around a lot so we have to pass.'
Which was weird, as I worked for one company 9 months, 2.5 years, then 11 years. Not to mention, the company I was working at for 2.5 years was being crushed in the Dot Bomb implosion, therefore the reason for looking for a new job...
So I guess it's good I didn't work there as they were too busy to slow down and read the f'ing resume I sent them.
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| Post 11 made on Friday May 10, 2013 at 15:54 |
Active Member |
Joined: Posts: | November 2009 610 |
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On May 10, 2013 at 14:06, bcf1963 said...
I highly suggest networking. Calling people and getting together for lunch, or a 10 minute phone call. The contacts don't need to be hiring, you just need to let them know you are looking, and then ask for their help! Tell them if they hear of a company looking for someone, or if they see a company that has more work than people to do it all. Don't just network at companies who might hire you, how about the distributor you bought from at the last place you worked? Don't forget electronic social networking, like LinkedIn. My present job found me based on what I had in my profile there. +1
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Trent Mulligan Just Add Power: Manufacturer - HD over IP solutions www.justaddpower.com | [Link: twitter.com] | [Link: facebook.com] |
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| Post 12 made on Friday May 10, 2013 at 16:36 |
juliejacobson CE Pro Magazine |
Joined: Posts: | April 2003 3,032 |
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On May 9, 2013 at 21:30, goldenzrule said...
The very first thing I look at is not what they have experience in or how long, but how many jobs they have had and how long they were at the jobs. If I see a resume in which they were only with their previous jobs for like a year each, or a couple years, I immediately wonder why. I don't automatically toss them, but that puts them at the end of the pile. I know their may be some qualified people, but if they have a history of leaving jobs after a short period, than it's not what I want. Hard to tell if someone keeps leaving jobs or if employers keep closing. for someone that seems to be jumping around, it is appropriate to explain the reason (e.g., company went out of business)
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"CEPro: your website sucks!" - Fins www.cepro.com[Link: twitter.com] |
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| Post 13 made on Friday May 10, 2013 at 16:39 |
juliejacobson CE Pro Magazine |
Joined: Posts: | April 2003 3,032 |
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Definitely get savvy on linkedin and do it now, start adding connections, and then ask for introductions and, if appropriate, recommendations. As an employer, I do check linkedin to gauge professionalism and anything else I can find.
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"CEPro: your website sucks!" - Fins www.cepro.com[Link: twitter.com] |
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| Post 14 made on Friday May 10, 2013 at 18:03 |
BizarroTerl Active Member |
Joined: Posts: | October 2002 588 |
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All a resume+cover letter is for is to get the interview. If you're seriously looking you'll almost rewrite the resume/letter for each job you're applying for.
In the few times I was looking for a job my SOP was to 1st research the company & the postion as much as possible. I would then write my cover & resume to match the advertised position as best I could. After I submitted it I then called (if possible) to talk to the decision maker just to make sure they got my resume (this often resulted in a interview). Once you start getting interviews you then need to learn how to interview (hint: confidence goes a long way towards getting an offer).
I once turned down a good position because I had just dropped off my resume at another company and I wanted that job instead (and got it).
Too often people act desparate (shows lack of confidence) and don't really pursue jobs effectively. When you're unemployed make job hunting your job, with the goal of being as good as you possibly can at doing it.
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| Post 15 made on Friday May 10, 2013 at 18:08 |
goldenzrule Loyal Member |
Joined: Posts: | July 2007 8,448 |
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On May 10, 2013 at 16:36, juliejacobson said...
Hard to tell if someone keeps leaving jobs or if employers keep closing. for someone that seems to be jumping around, it is appropriate to explain the reason (e.g., company went out of business) I understand that, but I highly doubt that every company closes within a year of the same person coming aboard for several years straight. And if that is the case, please keep him far away from my company.
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