How many of your guys are charging consultation and/or proposal fees. I have read all the threads about why it is a good idea to do so, and how valuable all of our time is. I was wondering how many guys are actually charging these fees. Are you charging the fee and applying it towards the invoice if you get the job or is it just an additional fee?

I get a lot of potential clients in which I do a site survey and consultation while only one spouse is home, many times just the wife who has no interest in making the decisions on a system. I end up putting a proposal together and sending it off for these. Too many times, never to be heard from again. I do not mind spending the time on these consultations and proposals if my time is paid for, so I am working on implementing a fee. Just wondering how many are doing it and exactly how do you term it, and do you apply it to the job if you get it.

I charge but not on every site visit. I do charge for a design fee on all but it is just labeled that.

Never email a proposal ever.

Why are you doing a site survey when the primary user/payer isn't home? That's just a waste of your time. Even if they travel for work, the typical lack of communication/accuracy in descriptions makes it pretty futile.

Not assuming the hubby is the only one using the system, but unless they're the only one who lives there, most of the women I talk to don't care about the AV stuff much, other than more basic applications.

I don't mind doing the initial site survey when only one of the spouses is home...But only go back with the proposl when you can explain it to both of them.  Things get lost in translation.  

Also, when you get both of them in the home, the inital site survey proposal will go up a % because they'll add things that one spouse didn't think of.  

Try and set up the second appointment before you leave the 1st appointment.  You don't have to worry about getting them on the phone.

We charge for consultation and system design each and every time. The price depends upon the scope of the project and time involved with the consultation and design.

I just did an initial site visit today on a new project for a client we've done work with for the past 6 years. I was on site with the owner, electrician and GC for 3 hours. You bet your sweet ass they are being billed for it.

Never, ever email a proposal to a new client. We will email smaller proposals to clients that we have a long trusting relationship with...you know, the one's who refer to you as "their guy" and will never shop you or beat you up on price. Larger scope proposals are always face to face no matter what. Why? That's when I whip out my pen and ask for a check, right then and there...let's get started.

On big jobs we'll roll design fees into project management.
When I worked for Magnolia, they charged a $125 fee to go out to a home, and if they approved our bid or estimate they'd get that money back, which I thought was a good policy, and weeded out the deadbeats or shoppers.



Golden Rule... but unfortunately some people insist on this --- not ever a good thing though.

The reason for making appointment with only one spouse is due to both their and my schedule. I am a one man shop. Finding the time to go out to do consultations proposes its own problems. Couple that with the fact many of my clients work in the city and do not return until 8-9pm every night. I sometimes schedule appointments on the weekend, but I can't work 7 days a week. Hopefully, I will find someone with the experience and work ethic soon to get on the jobs so I can work on the business and not in it.

We charge for design work and no it is not applied to the invoice. IMO working that way devalues the design work as something of no value right off the bat, when in fact it is of great and primary value. Think of a design/build architecture firm, do they say "we'll charge you for the plans but we'll comp you for all of them if you have us build the house"? That is how I look at it.

That said, being able to charge for design work is something that:
1. Depends to an extent on the dollar value of projects you are pursuing.
2. Is something you have to work your way into. It also requires a completely different mindset, including the willingness to say no to a perceived opportunity, if they are not willing to pay the fee, which I think is a hard hurdle for some to overcome.

One personal piece of advice is don't believe or accept the idea that "I have to do it for free because everyone else does". It does not matter what market you are in the majority of people will *always* give free proposals, so what you deliver needs to be special enough that people are willing to pay for it.

Lastly, you can adjust for what works best for you. It could be anything from a site visit/assessment fee, to a full fledged design fee.

I struggle with this, I think David said it really well.

What ive started doing is doing the site survey and basic estimate for free, if they want a more in depth proposal I charge a "design fee" if drawings are required or multiple revisions they get charged, If i can sense im being called to compete against another competitor I tell them there is a charge for a site survey, this usually weeds them out pretty quick.

Ive also started saying on the phone that We (I) are very rarely the cheapest, and if price is of the utmost concern then we are simply not the right fit, this also weeds them out pretty quick. Ive also been working on my phone spiel, and also acting more "stern" I have to say its been working pretty good!

We do this on our low end projects.

On higher end projects, I'll do a site consult for free. I can give up an hour or two of my time to see cool projects and builds in process.

You then get a written scope of work document (less than 10 pages and usually about 5-6) with a budget allowance estimate.

You agree, you pay a design fee, you get documentation and an engineered system that is priced out and immediately contractible. We aim to deliver this within a week.

This has worked out well. The "we don't do it free like the others" is a tough position to take. It helps to have sample documentation to show, and if the client doesn't "get it" you can delicately point out that other companies won't have this kind of process and documentation in place, and that keeps the whole state of the project in limbo. Also, show project photos, not just glam shots of rooms, but detail shots that show that you care about the job you do and installs are neat and well executed.

We had a really weird situation last year where I had a guy that was emailing and calling BEGGING for a site survey. It was just to move some stuff around his house, no new equipment, and generally other stuff I wasn't really interested in doing. He became very argumentative and aggressive, demanding to know how we stayed in business by saying no to the customer - he flat out told us he had a paying job for us and we were stupid to not come and take his money.

Red flag central. But the guy just didn't want to get dumped. It went on for a few days....and while I was trying to take a week off in Hawaii to boot...

Most will ask for me to just email the quote but I insist that I do a one on one presentation; and in our office if it is a local job. At their location if it is a distance project

That's what I need to add to our website and FB page... the guys in action... showing what actually goes into an installation - work in progress photos... how the cake is made!

Wayne Gretzky once said he misses every shot that he doesn't take. I've missed every shot I've taken by email.

You have to be in the presence of the person who will make the decisions when you present the proposal. Any other person can and will come up with irrelevant or ignorant objections if you're not there to tell the decision maker why they want it. That "any other person" is usually the spouse, but a designer can scuttle a project when finding that reality, for instance a center speaker that should be, uh, well, in the center, bites into her/his "design" goals for the space.

I agree with the others. Meet with one person on the initial consult but give the estimate in person with all the decision makers present. That way as each concern is expressed you either confirm your equipment selection, add to the quote or subtract from the quote.

Then you get a deposit check for the project :)