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Topic:
OT Aurora Shootings...
This thread has 129 replies. Displaying posts 121 through 130.
Post 121 made on Thursday August 2, 2012 at 20:50
Fins
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On August 2, 2012 at 07:12, 39 Cent Stamp said...
In 1791 they (the old bastards who wrote the constitution) felt the old rag needed updating. What's wrong with updating the old rag in 2012 to make it a new/ relavent rag?

Actually, they were against the bill of rights. They were worried that by listing a set number of rights, rights not listed may end up infringed. They only wrote the bill of rights as a compromise to demands from states that wouldn't ratify the constitution without it.
Civil War reenactment is LARPing for people with no imagination.

Post 122 made on Thursday August 2, 2012 at 20:58
Fins
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On August 2, 2012 at 12:14, FP Crazy said...
Other than the Alcohol Prohibition amendment (which we now know was rescinded) no amendment has taken away freedoms. All have been about protecting the freedoms in one fashion or another.

Hopefully any modification going forward will stay true to that ideology. If it can stay on that course, there is hope.

If the Bill of Rights or amendments to the constitution start adopting clauses that restrict and take away personal liberties, then it is a slippery slope, even if it is a liberty that you may personally feel should be restricted. I think we all need to temper our own views with that thought in mind?

What about the 16th Amendment?
Civil War reenactment is LARPing for people with no imagination.

Post 123 made on Thursday August 2, 2012 at 21:41
39 Cent Stamp
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On August 2, 2012 at 20:50, Fins said...
Actually, they were against the bill of rights. They were worried that by listing a set number of rights, rights not listed may end up infringed. They only wrote the bill of rights as a compromise to demands from states that wouldn't ratify the constitution without it.

The point i was making is that you have people in our country who look upon the constitution/bill of rights as some sort of lighting bolt written divine word from god above. The reality is that our "forefathers" were just a bunch of guys from hundreds of years ago when slave ownin' was cool and indian slaughterin' was called "progress".

Oh...and they were known for compromise.
Avid Stamp Collector - I really love 39 Cent Stamps
Post 124 made on Thursday August 2, 2012 at 21:46
39 Cent Stamp
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On August 2, 2012 at 20:58, Fins said...
What about the 16th Amendment?

The one that gives our country the ability to keep us safe and create infrastructure so that we can all work hard and make something of ourselves?
Avid Stamp Collector - I really love 39 Cent Stamps
Post 125 made on Thursday August 2, 2012 at 22:13
Fins
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On August 2, 2012 at 21:46, 39 Cent Stamp said...
The one that gives our country the ability to keep us safe and create infrastructure so that we can all work hard and make something of ourselves?

No, the one that let the federal government start taxing income
Civil War reenactment is LARPing for people with no imagination.

Post 126 made on Thursday August 2, 2012 at 22:29
FP Crazy
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Like no other civilized society has ever taxed its constituents?

It was taxation without representation that got everybody so frothed up.

I think it should be a on a voluntary basis, and one pays as they feel like it.

And it should be left up to the public to line the libraries with gun magazines and porno.

Chasing Ernie's post count, one useless post at a time.
Post 127 made on Friday August 3, 2012 at 17:05
CircularMotion
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An interesting thread, if tangled. To answer nobody's question, yes, the Aurora shooting will eventually lead to many tangential, if fruitless, arguments such as this one. The two week mark is getting close, get it in while you can :)

[Link: theonion.com]
When you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all - God Nebula (Futurama: EP Godfellas)
Post 128 made on Saturday August 4, 2012 at 12:30
RTI Installer
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On August 2, 2012 at 20:58, Fins said...
What about the 16th Amendment?

Dont even go there. A thread on that would go on for days.
Never Ignore the Obvious -- H. David Gray
Post 129 made on Saturday August 4, 2012 at 12:40
Fins
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On August 4, 2012 at 12:30, RTI Installer said...
|

Dont even go there. A thread on that would go on for days.

And this one hasn't?
Civil War reenactment is LARPing for people with no imagination.

Post 130 made on Saturday August 4, 2012 at 13:04
RTI Installer
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On August 2, 2012 at 20:58, Fins said...
What about the 16th Amendment?

Congressional Research Service. Report No. 84-168A, 784 / 725 titled "Some Constitutional Questions Regarding the Federal Income Tax Laws", dated May 25, 1979 and updated Sept. 26, 1984
"The Supreme Court, in a decision written by Chief Justice White, first noted that the Sixteenth Amendment did not authorize any new type of tax, nor did it repeal or revoke the tax clauses of Article I of the Constitution, quoted above. Direct taxes were, notwithstanding the advent of the Sixteenth Amendment, still subject to the rule of apportionment and indirect taxes were still the subject of the rule of uniformity. Rather, the Court found that the Sixteenth Amendment sought to restrain the Court from viewing an income tax as a direct tax because of its close effect on the underlying property." (pg 5)

House Congressional Record 3-27-1943 page 2580
"The income tax is, therefore, not a tax on income as such. It is an excise tax with respect to certain activities and privileges which is measured by reference to the income which they produce. The income is not the subject of the tax: it is the basis for determining the amount of tax."

Stanton vs Baltic Mining Co. 240 US 103, at 112 (1916) "By the previous ruling, it was settled that the Sixteenth Amendment conferred no new power of taxation, but simply prohibited the previous complete and plenary power of income taxation, possessed by Congress, from the beginning, from being taken out of the category of indirect taxation, to which it inherently belonged..."

RTI--tax such as what the government receives from a corporation is an indirect tax. Meaning the tax is not taken directly out of the pocket of the average citizen as those taxes are included in the manufacture and sale of goods and services.

A direct tax is what the IRS has been taking out of your paycheck all these years, which they are not suposed to be doing, but they do anyway becuse you volunteer to contribute a portion of your labor through mistake of law. The mistake is you are representing your self as if you were an artificial entity i.e. trust, partnership, corporation or a federaly employed individual. 

Yes the system is broken and is not working the way it is suposed to. If we were not paying the direct tax out of pocket we would be instead spending that money into the economy as we should, which in turn would increase productivity and national employment. The result is that this would put more money into the federal coffers through indirect taxation which would be a very good thing for all of us.

Can you do anything about it? No. Because even though there is a process through which to correct your mistaken identity, the world system of comerce has blocked anyone who lives completely outside the broken system.  The only people in this country that I know of who are living this way are the Amish and qualified native american tribes.

Never Ignore the Obvious -- H. David Gray
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