Freedom is not free by any measure, it always comes at a cost in lives, and that cost never ends!
 
So when they have converted us to a cashless society, taken away the means to stand against an oppressive foreign corporation controlled government. Who will all the gun hatters blame? Someday when it isn't, Libya or Syria caught in the middle of a revolution, but America, who will all the gun haters blame?
 
All governments at some point fail, no country despite the best intentions of its people and its government will last forever. It is quite evident by a simple examination of history that when a government is on the rocks it usually seeks to disarm the population as a safeguard to maintaining its rule. The disarming usual starts with the government showboating captured fringe lunatics as an example of what weapons lead to, people are of course never safe are they? and who better to protect them from evil things but the great and powerful government who can do no wrong.
 
The reason country's fail is because people become apathetic, they expect the government to do everything for them; this in turn forces governments to become parents which no government can effectively do forever so the country must inevitably fail. So when the US government eventually fails, what would you rather have in your closet? An assault riffle or a hatchet? A semi auto hand gun or a kitchen knife?
 
Don't allow your self to be consumed by the media circus. Crazy people have and always will be in the shadows waiting to pounce on the innocent, nothing will ever change that. All you can truly change is how you will live your own life and in so doing be a good example for your children and those around you.

Move on to a substantialy more significant cause such as banning the poisons Monsanto is using to slowly kill you, your kids and damm near everything else living we depend on!

Here is the insanity of some parts of this country. The idea that a civilian can take on the military is insane. Are you suggesting that you have the right to own F-16 and smart bombs? How about field artillery? You are suggesting that you and your buddies are going to stand up to a Marine rifle platoon? At the point your fantasy becomes real it will only be an other nation-state supplying you with weapons and air cover that will allow you to stand up to a well armed military. Had the NATO nations not installed a no flight zone over Libya the rebels would have lost. The failure to install a no flight zone in Syria demonstrates the inanity of your argument. You specifically want to own a M16 or similar weapon in order to fight the impending civil war that will come about when blowing up Federal building fails to accomplish the political aims by other means?

When the social fabric comes apart and anarchy reigns you may indeed need to defend you property from others like yourself. The Great Depression shows that millions were forced to leave the places they were born and migrate to other places--California was one popular destination--and they did so without stealing or assulting anyone. But the idea that you will take on the a trained and motivated military small arms platoon, supported by air and artillery shows that there are parts of this nation so delusional that it ought not to surprise that this nation is divided as solidly as it is. Compromise presupposes rationality and this is a quintessentially irrational post.

Where I would agree with you is that the interests of corporate capital are diametrically opposed to yours. That would include agribusiness, Apple and Wall Street. The history of business-labor disputes--and 1880-1936 give you plenty of information about business ownership of state and local governments, including using State Militias against citizens--gives you a good idea that outright confrontation as you imagine ends in your certain death. Whether it's private armies or state military the idea that you will take on a modern military force successfully is crazy. You keep your freedom by a. voting. b. identify your interests are not those with big business and c. I'd suggest that you get involved in politics. Corporate interests count on passivity and if you vote and practice term limits by not voting for the same idiot each time you might effect some change. The fact is that guns, abortions and other social issues are a distraction carefully cultivated to divide the millions of working people from using their power to stave off the desires of the Corporate state. The idea that you can replace the failure to participate in democracy with martial vigilance fighting a marine or army platoon is a certainty of failure and death. Hunting rifles and small arms in the hands of citizens will never stand up to a well trained soldier, even poorly led, supported by air and artillery. There is a vast difference between recreational use of guns and using those same guns to fight a well armed, fighting force.

This^^^^^

I've long contended this. And it is practiced on both sides of the political fence.

Guns, abortion, euthanasia, stem cell research, etc... while all certainly important issues and obviously draw copious amounts of passion out of the ranks, 90% of the population (probably 100% of Texas) seems to be fixated on this slight of hand, while large corporations (many not even American) picks all of our pockets. "Here watch these shiny dangling toys, while I slip my hand back here"

I at least realize they have their hands in my pockets but seemingly most Americans aren't even aware of it and keep marching on the protest lines of the abortion clinics and donating their hard earned money to the NRA, Right to Life, etc...playing right into the hands of the pick pockets.

Let's not have a discussion on the real issues and problems, just keep stoking the fires of the issues that are a distraction and keep people frothed up.

I for one, don't think gun control will work and am not an advocate of control. I think many of the laws in this country need a huge enema. I also have zero passion for guns and don't own one. But I also don't think the issue is worth the attention it gets, when the real issues facing this country are so dire. But one must have an IQ above 80 to grasp this concept of the true problems.

You Misunderstand what I was trying to say. The right to keep and bear arms was amended into the constitution not for hunting purposes, but to protect the populace from its own government gone bad, this is no big secret. I was just trying to put this into more modern terms. I would like to believe as with other failed country's that when this one unravels a large slice of the US military will side with the populace.

I doubt it. My sister was fighting cancer at this time and busy taking chemo.

Wow, sorry.

Some insurgents with AK47s and homemade explosives might debate the possibility with you. Another factor is if it came down to a revolution, how many American soldiers would be willing to fire on their fellow citizens? Comparing how the Libyan military would have responded without NATO actions to how our military would react if the people decided to rise up is a very unfair comparison.

+1

I'd suggest reading a bit of American history. The information is there. You only need to read it. The use of State militia against a State's citizens has a very long history, often in support of private, wealthy interests. I could give you a very long list but recall Kent State? Chicago, 1968 was called a Police riot. The paranoid right would include Ruby Ridge and Branch Davidians ( though I'd suggest that this is the expected outcome of threatening to use arms against the government )I'd not count on troops not following orders. Philadelphia police, responding to a wacko sect MOVE incinerated an entire square block in 1985.

With respect to Libya I'd suggest that were it not for NATO overflights preventing Qaddafi from turning his military on cities he would have won. Saddam did the same thing in 1991 when he did crush internal rebellion we helped to sponsor. Later we established no flight zones to limit his ability to crush internal challenges we were supporting. Without US air support the Northern Alliance would not have succeeded against the Taliban in Afghanistan. Before US air superiority they were losing. Look at Syria now and see how well citizen, stand up to modern weaponry, especially mortars and artillery used indiscriminately. The Syrian army is hardly in the same class as a Marine Battalion.

I may know squat about rifles, guns and bullets but I do know that it is delusional to think that any weapons in civilian hands can stand up to a trained military, particularly one that has artillery and air support. Use your guns recreationally. Get ready to defend your property from the invading hordes from the cities once the predicted chaos begins. Just don't tell me you're going to use them against the US military and not expect me to stop laughing; or conclude you're crazy and possibly someone who should not be in possession of a gun.

You can laugh all you want. It doesn't make your distorted view of the average US military personnel correct.

This is what law enforcement does if you protest...

" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen>

" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen>

I wonder what would happen if citizens attempted an armed revolution.

I sure hope you're right but there are too many examples of troops opening fire on citizens for me to wholly have faith in the innate goodness a grunt. During the NYC draft riots troops not from NY were imported from Gettysburg to stop the riots. Care to know how many militia opened fire on miners, and striking workers? I would not have to import Alabama National Guard into NY to open fire. I'd just bring NY National Guard from upstate NY. It's what Pennsylvania Governors did all of the time. Bring Western PA soldiers against their Eastern brethren or Eastern against Western. Then there was Kent State......

The 2nd Amendment was written into the constitution because citizens were expected to serve in militia and had to supply their own equipment, including horses. Officers were expected to raise their own platoons and equip them. Europe had standing armies. You do recall the Whiskey Rebellion? I'm not going to convince you of this, so good has the NRA misinformation been; still it is the case and it was how generations understood the 2nd Amendment till about 1980. That was also an other age, before Montgomery Meigs introduced standardization to American Army.

I am happy to learn you have no desire to take on a rifle platoon with the contents of your gun safe.

I am not a big gun person. and have never needed a gun to defend myself. I dont belong to the NRA, and have no designs on overthrowing the government. But I would fight for my and your right to own guns.  As far as all out civil war in this country goes, that all depends on chain of command. If the government fails and what ever remains is in conflict with itself, I would not bet on the military maintaining any sort of uniform order. More like the country would break up into feudal territorys over time.

All I have to really say about all of this is "peak oil" buy yourself a good peice of dirt somplace and a lot of organic seed becuse well, that is going to be the only thing of value in this world someday.

Think I am crazy? Saudi Arabia has 25 percent of the worlds reserves (or used to). They just started drilling off shore, why? Becuse they are way past peak. They have been sucking those feilds dry since the 1930's. How about Tar sands?  They are burining through whats left of the natural GAS just to cook the oil out of that muck. You dont go after tar sands unless you are desperate.

The whole world is getting desperate and people know it, it makes them do crazy things like shoot inocent people, they know somthing is wrong but they dont know what to do about, so they act out against anything, everything. 

Take a good look around, put that snap shot in your mind, becuse your generation may very well be the last to see industry, agriculture, medicine, transportation, entertainment and so forth on the scale we have all become so addicted to, at some point soon we will reach a point where fuel (or lack thereof) will become to exspensive for the vast majority, at that point everything will stop, everything will break down.

Hydrogen? Solar, how are you going to power the machines that process it, where are you going to get the 7 gallons of oil it takes just to make one car tire, were are you going to get the fuel to power the refinerys that process the metal that goes into maintaining infrastructure.  without petro chemicals being produced on a huge scale, there will be no plastics, no medicines, no steel, no pesticides. I challenge you to find one single thing in your home that did not require oil in some form to put it there.

Am I crazy? No I am just practicle. Does the second amendment matter in this day and age? In my opinion the constitution was meant to be ageless. In my opinion the age we live in is coming to an end. Therefore the 2nd amendment more than ever is one of the most important parts of the constitution. In my opinion no part of the Constitution should be changed, omited or ignored.

Anyone that thinks we don't need guns look at what happened in India today. Remember what happened when the Northeast lost power? Imagine what would happen if all of North America lost power, that still not 600m people. Let something like that last more then 2 days. It wouldn't be a good thing.

If, Ifs and ands were pots and pans the whole world would be a kitchen.

If a frog had wings he wouldn't bump his ass when he hopped.

The loss of power in the Northeast and Midwest lasted well more than 2 days. (I was in the middle of it)  Nothing happened.  We should all save bottled water and remove the computers from our cars, pull all of our cash out of the banks because of Y2K.   Nothing happened.

India lost power all over the country today....Nothing happened.  

Do you really think that if you lost power for more than 2 days, human beings would turn into a raving pack of lunatics hell bent on breaking in your house and taking everything you have, eating your groceries and then killing you?  If you do, you watch too much TV, smoke too much weed, or both.   

There's never going to be a revolution.  I promise.  People are too lazy to vote, do you think they'll actually revolt?  Maybe 4 dudes in Texas, but that's it.  

But that's not why I posted.  

I've been firing weapons my entire life. I was hunting before I could legally take hunters safety course.  I own 2 guns a Mossberg 12g. and a Beretta 9mm.  The Mossberg is to kill ducks, the Beretta is to kill whomever enters my house uninvited intending to do harm to my family.

I used to do more deer hunting but because November is my busy time of year, I generally skip deer camp.  

Here's a few opinions that I have. 

1.  Assault Rifles are for killing human beings.  Period end of story.
2.  Handguns are made for killing, ain't no good for nothin else. (Thank you Lynard Skynard).
3.  People who "collect" assault rifles are generally strange birds.
4.  People who go to the gun range to shoot assault rifles are also generally strange birds.
5.  I try to steer clear of strange birds.

In the course of my 35 years of hunting, I've heard countless people tell me that you can use the .223 assault rifle like the AR15 for hunting, and that's a good enough reason to own it.  I've seen alot of hunters in those 35 years, I've never met or seen one walking through the woods with an AR15.  I've seen them in safes, on walls, and in gun cases, but I've never seen one in the woods. So what are they used for exactly?  Killing human beings, or potentially killing human beings.

That being said, if some strange bird (not insane) wants to own an AR15, I don't have a problem with it.  I just figure he's a horrible shot.  If I ever have the need to fire a round per second, I'm probably in the wrong place, or I'm severly out gunned.  In either case, it's not going to end well.
I was taught that if you have to use 2 bullets, you should have never fired the first time.  So for me, 100 is out of the question. Not gonna be much meat on the deer if I lace him full of holes. 

But you can't ban these weapons. Period.  Here's why.  They're the lesser of the evils.  If a person wants to kill a mass of people, there is zero we can do to stop it.  It has happened, and it will happen again. 

Now, make it impossible for a crazy son of a bitch to get a gun, he'll just use a bomb.  You can't stop crazy.  

So instead of 12 people, or 20 people, you have hundreds.   

You can't stop them with background checks and pyschological profiles, because.....they're not really crazy.  They just play one on TV.