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Topic:
XLR to Speaker level for high-end 7.2 setup
This thread has 34 replies. Displaying posts 1 through 15.
Post 1 made on Saturday February 4, 2012 at 07:34
jesterselv
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My customer is adamant about running XLR wires to a 7.2 theater room to each speaker from the amp. He does not want Speaker-wire until the very last foot.

He's a really technical guy and he has his reasons, and some of which goes over my head. That being said. I've looked online for a XLR to speaker converter. But the only information I found is that pins 2+3 are both positive and someone on another forum soldered them together (it sounds just wrong to me though).
Does anyone have any input on this type of setup? We're using audiophile grade equipment though (haven't actually picked out the lines yet but its high-end).
"Those who sacrifice liberty For security deserve neither." - Benjamin Franklin
Post 2 made on Saturday February 4, 2012 at 08:01
adamav
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XLR carries a balanced line level or mic level signal . I have yet to see a speaker level signal on a XLR connector . I have seen line level via XLR coming out of preamp/processor to a monoblock amplifiers located next to each speaker with a very short speker wire , but XLR to Speaker level , and high end equipment in one sentence seems like an oxymoron to me.
Post 3 made on Saturday February 4, 2012 at 08:02
Cubitus
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XLR is a line-level signal. You can plug it in your speakers the way you want, you will get no sound. The converter you're looking for is called an "amplifier".

If you run XLR wires to each speaker, then use active speakers, or install a monoblock amplifier behind each speaker.

Bryston use to have a monoblock that you can mount behind a speaker.
[Link: bryston.com]

60, 120 or 300 watts.
Post 4 made on Saturday February 4, 2012 at 09:24
highfigh
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On February 4, 2012 at 07:34, jesterselv said...
My customer is adamant about running XLR wires to a 7.2 theater room to each speaker from the amp. He does not want Speaker-wire until the very last foot.

He's a really technical guy and he has his reasons, and some of which goes over my head. That being said. I've looked online for a XLR to speaker converter. But the only information I found is that pins 2+3 are both positive and someone on another forum soldered them together (it sounds just wrong to me though).
Does anyone have any input on this type of setup? We're using audiophile grade equipment though (haven't actually picked out the lines yet but its high-end).

What is "a really technical guy"? Is he an electrical engineer? Computer scientist/engineer, structural engineer, physicist, chemist?

XLR isn't used for speaker connections- it's used for line/low level signals but was sometimes used for speaker connections in the past. Speakon are used in pro audio for connections to speakers and sometimes amps, but they wouldn't be confused with XLR plugs/jacks.

I would make him explain why he wants to use these connectors. If it's really for placing the amplifiers near the speakers, that's one thing but the way you wrote the requirements, it's not the way things are done and that's for several reasons- speaker cable is usually heavier than cable for carrying line level.

If he wants to change to speaker wire at the last foot, I would ask how this would be better than one piece of speaker wire from the amp to the speaker when his idea has four connection points, instead of only two.
My mechanic told me, "I couldn't repair your brakes, so I made your horn louder."
Post 5 made on Saturday February 4, 2012 at 09:33
mark65
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Balanced (XLR) cables are only effective when connected between balanced components. In the case of a typical home theater, speakers and AVRs are unbalanced since they lack the shield connection. He probably heard somwhere that balanced cables use a high TPI count therefore adding to noise rejection. This is all well and good, but you would be hard pressed to find a noise source strong enough to interfere with a speaker level signal.

So in conclusion this customer seems like the perfect Monster Cable customer. Sell him some snake oil and he'll be happy.
Post 6 made on Saturday February 4, 2012 at 09:41
kgossen
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IF you do this you can remove the words "High End" out of your description.
"Quality isn't expensive, it's Priceless!"
OP | Post 7 made on Saturday February 4, 2012 at 09:45
jesterselv
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On February 4, 2012 at 08:02, Cubitus said...
Bryston use to have a monoblock that you can mount behind a speaker.
[Link: bryston.com]

60, 120 or 300 watts.

That's pretty much what I was looking for. Not sure how I'd mount those near the rears and surrounds though.
"Those who sacrifice liberty For security deserve neither." - Benjamin Franklin
Post 8 made on Saturday February 4, 2012 at 11:48
John Williams
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On February 4, 2012 at 09:45, jesterselv said...
That's pretty much what I was looking for. Not sure how I'd mount those near the rears and surrounds though.

Then you need to edit your 1st post, because this is completely different from what you 1st posted.

Your 1st post indicated that the customer wanted to use XLR cable (2 conductor with shield - usually 26-18awg wire) 'AS' speaker wire. Which is very stupid.
Post 9 made on Saturday February 4, 2012 at 12:28
edizzle
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i think you and your client may be heading down the wrong path. you make no mention of mono-block amplifiers or powered speakers which leads me to believe neither one of you understand the proper implementation.

that being said, this could actually be pretty neat, but like you said, may be hard to locate amps near speakers. Genelec offers some pretty bad ass powered speakers that accept balanced input.
I love supporting product that supports me!
Post 10 made on Saturday February 4, 2012 at 13:13
Ernie Gilman
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I hope you can get this worked out. Everybody who has had suggestions has had exact things to say about exactly what to do, but your descriptions have been very vague, even your description of your client.

As edizzle says, you may be heading down the wrong path, and I'd say it's because you don't know (or aren't sharing with us) the exact details that could make us cheer or suggest alternatives.

Start with the fact that you initially said the client wants XLR wire down to the last foot, at which point he wants speaker wire, and you later say that you meant there should be an amplifier in between. This is so fuzzy and undefined that you could get really messed up when it comes time to decide on something and actually spend money on it.

Clarify.
A good answer is easier with a clear question giving the make and model of everything.
"The biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place." -- G. “Bernie” Shaw
Post 11 made on Saturday February 4, 2012 at 15:07
mcn779
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Ideally that would be the way to do it. Put the amps within a few feet of the speakers. I think that while this will minimize noise, RFI, you might run into problems with noise from being on different legs of the A/C.
Post 12 made on Saturday February 4, 2012 at 15:12
3PedalMINI
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On February 4, 2012 at 15:07, mcn779 said...
Ideally that would be the way to do it. Put the amps within a few feet of the speakers. I think that while this will minimize noise, RFI, you might run into problems with noise from being on different legs of the A/C.

true, and how does this even work with code? i mean you could do a power bridge to each of the 7 locations so it would be surge protected and on the same leg but wouldn't this count as a "hidden" junction box? in a theater I would assume your doing sometype of acoustically transparent screen and then some on walls for the surrounds.

What type of speakers are you doing? floor standing, on wall or super high end in walls?
The Bitterness of Poor Quality is Remembered Long after the Sweetness of Price is Forgotten! - Benjamin Franklin
Post 13 made on Saturday February 4, 2012 at 15:36
mcn779
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You have to get the electrician to make sure all the outlets for the amps are on the same leg as the rack. This won't completely eliminate the problem but will get you a long way there.

There's another thread about ground loops, Check it out.

[Link: remotecentral.com]
Post 14 made on Saturday February 4, 2012 at 16:10
2nd rick
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On February 4, 2012 at 12:28, edizzle said...
Genelec offers some pretty bad ass powered speakers that accept balanced input.

Their architectural line still has the amps in the rack.
They are still bi-amplified (or tri-amplified) speaker systems, but the heat and electricity stay in the place where they can be most effectively managed.
Rick Murphy
Troy, MI
Post 15 made on Saturday February 4, 2012 at 16:28
2nd rick
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On February 4, 2012 at 07:34, jesterselv said...
But the only information I found is that pins 2+3 are both positive and someone on another forum soldered them together (it sounds just wrong to me though).

That is for converting balanced line level audio to single ended line level audio (like RCA connectors on consumer audio gear).

It's not what you need right now, but you should learn this.
[Link: community.klipsch.com]
Rick Murphy
Troy, MI
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