Yeah but try and tell these guys that. They think streaming=all digital video. It doesn't.

They (for some reason) dont get that a download and streaming are two very different things. High quality HD can be downloaded today.

No... thats just more of good ol Anthony assuming things and then using my voice in his head when he repeats it to himself enough to make him think i said it. You do this everytime you quote me in any thread. Please start reading what I write and respond to me as opposed to what you think you thought you heard me say.

I said that anyone still buying physical media is an old fuddy duddy whos waving his fist at progress. You know the type. The guy who still uses a type writer.


I dont even have a Netflix account. You just said "Vast Majority". Read what you just wrote. Who do you think the market cares about? You? or the Vast Majority? If you think the answer is you please contact the guys with Laser Disc collections and ask to join their support group.


I think 10 years is plenty. In 10 years i will bump this thread to remind you of one of your mistakes in life.


LOL I am forced to read the ravings of a guy who thinks that since he does care we should all be forced to carry around discs instead of being able to magically make our content appear on every device we own allover the world. Your logic would have us all carrying around portable record players.

I pee'd a little reading that.  Bwahhahaha.


Seriously though, it's actually kinda frustrating having this debate.  I assume that everyone in the debate is in this industry and not just a hobbyist.

A little more than 10 years ago, I was using 56k modem.
A little more than 10 years ago, I was installing $15,000 42" plasma TV's.

You can't picture tomorrows technology, with today's data speeds.  None of it will be the same.  A previous poster mentioned something about Comcast and other companies and legislators preventing technology from moving forward.  It's not that they're preventing it, they're just slowing down the process of you being able to get it, until they can sell it to you.  These companies want you to be an absolute media slut, but they want to be your pimp.  Until they can pimp it, they're going to use their money to stop somebody else from pimping it.


Check your surroundings when you're at your next install.  The walls and bookshelves of CD's DVD's and VHS tapes are disappearing.   You don't see them like you used to. Where are they going?  Have people just stopped watching movies and listening to music? No. Do they just go to Blockbuster? Maybe, but they just filed Bankruptcy, so they're not going there like they used to.

If people don't buy the movies and music (which is evident that they don't because they don't have stacks of them on shelves at their homes)and they're not getting it from Blockbuster, where are they getting it from? 

Do you think that elves are sneaking in their homes and loading the dvd player for them? I guess that's possible, but let's say Netflix killed Blockbuster.  

What did Netflix do recently?  They attempted to double up the payment for people getting the mail and the streaming service.  Netflix is trying to get away from mail delivery, they'd rather be in the click delivery business.  

Vudu just got Walmart money backing them.  

You're right, I doubt downloading and streaming is the future of anything.  I'll call Apple and let them know that their 13 billion quarterly profit is all pie in the sky.

and the majority of the population doesnt own a streaming device at home and if they did they wouldnt even know how to use it. Disc are here for a while.

480p upscaled by a display will keep most people happy.My daughter happily watches TV on her computer at iPod speeds and is more interested in the show's content than its image quality. I think sound analogy matters more. A few people still buy high quality rigs. Most are happy with Speakercraft in-walls that would make anyone with his hearing intact cringe. A lot of folks swill wine I would not use as vinegar.

Convenince matters more than qulaity and the sad fact is that some idiot just turned out the lights. The files were protected. Kaleidescape attempted to do it right and the assholes stopped them. This is not about contracts or DRM. It is about money and the CSA wants Kaleidescape's software so they can bring the same products to market at much less cost--particularly since they have no desire to do the R&D on software. Files are the future no matter how much Antony will bay at the moon. He may not get the same bit for bit quality but 320mps music files make most people happy and the majority of iTunes sales rips are 192bps. It may require buffering, it will require compression and as long as you get to watch what you want when you want it will not matter--assuming the grinches don't steal christmas yet again.

But more and more those disc players provide a streaming alternative. People are going to the have capability even before they know how to use it.

never said we are, but if digital music is 32% and digital video is 1% don't you think that we are closer to representing the whole world then what ever block you live in?


agree, but my horse and buggy gets me where I want to enjoy a great movie the way it was meant to be enjoyed and not be assaulted by poor audio and video sure beats the flying car that you are tryng to sell me


it has always depended how much you are willing to pay, a decade ago I had over a Mbps but I had a friend (payd by woiork) in Japan that had 100mbps


agree, the issue is that you would rather stick yyour head in the sand then see what I post. Yes in 8 years it will more than double (hopefully) but how hard is it for you to see the simple calculations I diod on the last page that in order to ghave the equivalent of 2D BD it needs to increase at least 10x and that there is already 3D BD so even that is already outdated and there 4k devices already on the market so any future should be with 4K and not 1080p AV.



what are you talking about, speed has nothing to do with what you quoted. You qualified the AV crap that Netflix offers now as good, I replied that I could understand someone with extremely low standards calling it acceptable but you lose all credibility when you call it good.




0.3% but the thig is they are still around


stuck around so long, they are still around 70% of the market, do you honestly think they will dissapear soon?


no, it was you that said


now I hope that we can agree that 2021/01/01 will be next decade and if someone is buying them that mean s that they do have a place.






doesn't that make them relevent to the people selling them and the people buying them (assuming botyh exist)? it would be just as insane as me saying DL/streaming video is irrelevent because only a few people do it and I am not one of them. Relevence does not start and end with me or you.


maybe but who cares? to bring it back on topic a bit, if K wins the battle and 10 years from now are profitable selling their system through CIs to a part of the population that has dedicated HT is there something wrong with them filling that need and them pursuing this case at this point in time?

| I dont even have a Netflix account. You just said "Vast Majority". Read what you just wrote. Who do you think the market cares about? You? or the Vast Majority? If you think the answer is you please contact the guys with Laser Disc collections and ask to join their support group.


The guy spending $ and the guy that cares, the sheep don't matter because they just follow. Simple question, I linked earlier to the 2011 stats 32% of sales are DL the rest physical media. an alien race says they will vaporize the world if we keep both and all the record labels need to agree on one or the other. Which one will they pick? Do you think it will DL because 39 thinks most people want it (which might be true) or physical media since that is 68% of yothe revenue and chances are that the people that pick it do it for a reason (some because they want the quality others because they like something tangible, others because it is impractical)


Please tell me where I can go and purchase and DL a BD or better quality version of the film I want.

Here is the problem with you. At no point have i ever said that your disc wasnt better. What i have said over and over and what you continue to ignore is that you and me and anyone elses love of a good quality disc to play "the way it was meant to be enjoyed" matters very little when the rest of the world want convenience.

Your horse and buggy gets you where you want to go until a sports car rolls you over on the highway.


FCC says 100mbps by 2020.


You are the one with your head in the sand.


No... you once again qualified and quoted etc this in your own head. I said that streaming was good. You tossed netflix in there yourself. Stop doing that. It makes you look silly.


So is the plague.


Yes.


Yeah. Just like there is no place on the interstate for your horse and buggy.


someone is buying them that mean s that they do have a place.
|

Thats your opinion. You are trying to create a reality out of your imagination. Your logic would have the cassette being sold at every record store.


Well whatever. Like i said. Fuddy duddy waving his fist at progress.


There is nothing wrong with K trying to sell their current system in 10 years but no one will buy it if they dont incorporate modern technology like the ability to stream and download purchased movies over the internet.


The sheep are the market. I dont think most people want downloading. I think that most people will trade convenience for quality initially and eventually quality wont be an issue. If you think i am wrong maybe you can help block buster turn things around.


I would if it existed. I think this might be you making things up again. I never said there was a better quality version available for download.

I love how you just, make up facts... "50-50 bet." Please back that up.

You and I know you are throwing numbers out there that are pure BS!

I live in a fairly newly developed area north of Dallas. Fairly well to do subdivision, most homes in the 2500-3500 ft^2, average price is probably in the low $300K's. The best service available here, guarantees me 10mbps download. I believe the cost was in the range of $80 a month. I have a plan that guarantees me 5mbps down. I don't think this is out of the realm for most of the nation.

As a matter of fact, try this:

[Link: networkworld.com]

Note what it says about the average connection in the US:

34% of users have access to connections above 5Mbps.
27% of those are 5 - 10Mbps
7% of those are above 10Mbps

74% of users are at greater than 2Mbps.
Note that that means greater than 1/4 of americans are below 2Mbps!

Yeah, speeds are increasing. But nowhere close to the rates you suggest. It's gonna be quite a while before physical media dies, or streaming movies even become a majority.

You first.


Ditto.


What was your area like 10 years ago? Now lets use some logic here and think about what it will be like in 10 years.


Quite a while... like over the next decade.

Holy crap you guys are thick headed.  You continue to try to argue the point that streaming is not going to take over by using statistics of what your download speeds are today.  

You say that most people don't have streaming devices currently.  You're correct, but at one point, most people didn't have a TV, or a computer, or a HDTV.  The fact of the matter is, most TV's from last year and from now on will have an ethernet port on the back.  

Sony currently makes a media player.  It's their Bluray player without the disc. It's $70. retail.  Why would Sony (one of the leading manufacturers of discs DVD and CD) make a product that doesn't give you the ability to insert their disc?  Hmmm.

Maybe because they're not going to continue to produce them.  

You guys have to understand that YOU are the exception to the rule. You understand quality audio and video, the vast majority of people don't.  All they know is they want the song or movie, and they want it NOW!.  

Nobody said this was going to happen by April.  It will take a decade.  

Let's do the math one more time.

Currently Sony makes movie
Sony produces DVD
Sony packages promotes and sells DVD
Sony pays distributors and labor
Sony ships DVD all over the planet

This costs $XXX.

In the future:
Sony makes movie
Sony produces movie in a streamable format.
Sony promotes DVD.  

Which is more cost effective for Sony?  They can use YOUR time, your electricity, for YOU to buy the movie.  All they need to do is make it available.  Guess where?   Sony.com.

Corporations are on this planet for 1 reason.  To turn a profit.  If they can be more profitable, and get you to purchase things from the comfort of your own home while sitting in your underwear, they're going to do it.   

Oppo has even released BluRay players that stream now.  Why?  Demand.  Pure and Simple. A quality BluRay player couldn't compete in the market place with less expensive units unless it streamed.  Now it streams. 

This is a no brainer people.

When VCR's first came out they were $1000.  If you wanted to rent a movie in my town and couldn't afford a VCR (who could?), you could rent a VCR from the movie rental place.  You had to give them a $300 deposit!

The VCR  came in a plastic case that seemed bullet proof, and they felt like they weighed at least 25lbs.

Times change fellas.  

So your guys stance is, we can make a 200,000 lb  Boeing 747 to fly through the air, but we can't stream  a high quality movie? 
   



 
 

I don’t think you are right with the rest of the world doesn’t care for quality and honestly I don’t see how DL/streaming is more convenient but why would it matter? I and the rest of the world don’t care if some see a benefit with records but obviously the few that do can buy record players and records because they prefer them.


OK, but how is that relevant. Is it free real 100mbps for everyone everywhere with draconian ramifications if Telcos don’t meet that goal?
Also let’s say everyone has 100mbps at home it is still not good enough what happens if you are somewhere where you don’t, last summer I was at my friends cottage I had to use dial up to get connected because he does not want to spend for highspeed (that I am not sure if it exists), this New years I was at my sisters cottage and I needed to go to the end of the doc to get cell reception . In both occasions I brought a few BDs so we could watch . Lastly 100mbps would be close to interesting for a 1080p movie but like I asked before, what happens if two people in the home want to watch something different? What happens if you want 3D or 4K?
Right now if I wanted I could pay 150$ a month and get 120mbps it is not that 100mbps won’t be possible by 2020 but three things it is not enough, it won’t be Everywhere and if there are cheaper options people will choose them because saving X$ a month adds up over time no matter what it is.

OK forget the Netflix can you tell me who offers good streaming Vudu is the best from what I have seen and it is slightly better than Netflix but it would be just as unreasonable to call it good.

What the hell are you talking about, you are losing it my friend.

I did not ask for better , I asked for BD quality [b]or[/b] better. If it is nowhere near BD quality how can you call it high quality, that is like the guy in his 10 year old Lada talking about his hot-rod luxury sports car.

|
 last summer I was at my friends cottage I had to use dial up to get connected because he does not want to spend for highspeed (that I am not sure if it exists), this New years I was at my sisters cottage and I needed to go to the end of the doc to get cell reception . 
|


At this point you're just saying words.  You're not making any sense.  Sure you may have struggled getting connection and good speeds in a couple of cottages.  

Good thing we're not all Keebler elves.  

I can't believe you're using connectivity at cottages as your example.  Isn't the reason of having a cottage  to "get away" from the connections and enjoy the outdoors?    

You realize that not everyone lives in Cottages right?  

Stamp can you please make a photoshop of You dragging Anthony by his hair toward the future?  

Really?  You don't see how streaming and downloading is more convenient than running out to Blockbuster or the record store?  

|Lastly 100mbps would be close to interesting for a 1080p movie but like I asked before, what happens if two people in the home want to watch something different? What happens if you want 3D or 4K?
|

Again, you're comparing today's bandwidth with the future. You can't do that, you don't even know how the data will be sent for sure. 


You're right.  It won't be at cottages. If people chose the cheaper option, we'd all still be using aerial antennas.  


I watch a movie on Vudu twice a week religiously.  I even watch them in SD.  I don't care.  I just want to be able to rent the movie without removing my butt cheeks from the chair.

| Sony currently makes a media player. It's their Bluray player without the disc. It's $70. retail. Why would Sony (one of the leading manufacturers of discs DVD and CD) make a product that doesn't give you the ability to insert their disc? Hmmm.

Sony also makes a projector so I guess TVs will be doomed soon and a tablet so there will soon be no more PCs.
and how is it their disk.

OK, and what is your point?

there is an issue with your math so let's start simple

-Sony makes movie
same for any distribution model?
-Sony produces movie (for DL or DVD)
same for both?
-Sony promotes title
same for both again?
OK so what is left on the DVD side
-Sony pays distributors and labor
actualy that should be replicator (which in Sony's case is Sony) and the replicator also takes care of distribution to the stores so that is included in the price.
So basically you come up with a very trivial onetime cost per disk in what is left (under 1$)
Now what is left for streaming (which youi appeared to forget)? you need an extremely big internet pipe, if you want to have millions that want to watch your latest block buster all at the same time with no play back issues and servers that can serve it all up as well as disk space. These are all real big costs that are monthly and fixed. So yes for a mega blockbuster on its first week selling 10M copies there can be an advantage to DL but what happens on a smaller film or that same block buster a few months later when the costs are exactly the same and there are only few people paying to get it?

Also you are missing a point, Sony can't sell you a film on Sony.com, if that was the case it would never work, do you think everyone knows the studio that is distributing each film they want to watch so they can go to that studios website to DL it? what about smaller studios and indies? What about the equipment manufacturers? What about mergers, demergers and acquisitions? Or studios/websites being renamed.


no the issue is if the airline needs a 747 so they can bring me where I want to go they buy one, and if I want to ride to get to my destination I pay the airline a ticket and I go where they fly. In order to DL high quality movies I need an ISP that can handle bringing that high quality movie to me. The Issue is the consumer wants a cheap price from Netflix or Vudu or some other streaming/DL site for the film, but they do not want to have to pay the ISP to beef up the network 10, 20 30x what it is now which is needed. If we are discussing movie theatres spending several hundreds a month to the ISPs for quality DLeds,then that is not an issue, but Joe public is extremely far from that and most people are saying why am I paying 40$, 50$... when 10 years ago it was 20$.