On December 12, 2011 at 12:43, RTI Installer said...
OK here is some science....The problem with apes and man is that there is not just a couple of missing links, there are about 20 - 30 deep missing between ape and man. Further, man has 46 chromosomes, apes have 48. The spookiest part about mans 46 chromosomes is that the first base pair are fused together. If they were not fused we would have 48 chromosomes. No other creature on the planet has a fused base chromosome pair. You could run all kinds of directions with this but within the confines of modern science nobody has a clue what to do with this knowledge and those who do, more likely than not, are afraid to even try to speculate in front of their peers. Wherefore, most scientists fall back on old accepted dogma to avoid being blacklisted.
Did you pull the '20-30 deep' number out of thin air? Yes, humans have a pair of fused chromosomes: what does it mean? You seem to be implying something, not sure what it is. Do you accept evolution or not?
As for you implication that scientists are afraid to go against the grain your understanding of science is completely skewed. Any scientist who develops a new theory, especially something that challenges accepted theory, will get a significant amount of respect and attention. But they will need to have evidence supporting their theory. If they talk out of thin air, make up stuff, or ignore contrary evidence they will get blacklisted and their repution will suffer. There needs to be substance to their theory.
I see that you have bought-in to the rhetorical talking points of the Liberal media, Progressive Academia and the Democrat Party as regards the "Evil Corporations..."
What specific talking points do you take issue with? I prefer to accept talking points that are based in fact or sound logic, especially both.
It's really ironic the amount of paranoia about government yet the ignorance granted corporations misbehaving.
The term 'conspiracy theorist' has acquired a decidedly negative connotation.
The negative connotation has been earned, now propagated by the world wide web.
The most delicious irony is the correlation between one world government conspiracy theory beliefs and a complete rejection of climate science, no doubt helped along by the well documented PR campaign funded by the energy industry.
Did you pull the '20-30 deep' number out of thin air? Yes, humans have a pair of fused chromosomes: what does it mean? You seem to be implying something, not sure what it is. Do you accept evolution or not?
No, i do not. The commonly regurgitated theory of evolution is wrong, many scientists are starting to come around to this conclusion as well. I am in the Scientifically supported spontaneous adaptation camp. This "theory" states that life spontaneously adapts due to environmental stresses. such as changes in types of available food or habitat. Not over eons but within the span of just a few generations. in the case of insects a spontaneous adaptive mutation can take place in only one generation. We see this in bacteria and with viruses all the time. Even Darwin's finches proved him wrong when within one generation the finches completely changed their beak shape so as to adapt to a severe change in climate which altered their available food supply.
Yes 20 - 30 is a guess but its a pretty good guess since nobody really knows for sure. But it is know for sure that you simply don't go from an occipital bun brain arrangement as found with the skeletons that are claimed to be pre human all the way up to a pronounced coronal brain cavity in only a couple of mutated steps it just didn't happen I believe that 20 -30 is probably very Conservative.
Do I believe that aliens assembled humans out of other animals?
No
The concept of aliens living out there someplace is a mathematical probability. However, the idea that aliens would come all the way out here to the boon docks of this galaxy to visit this planet for what ever reason is an extremely far fetched assumption.
I do however believe that humans have been around in this form far longer than commonly accepted. I think it far more likely that we are the descendants of a first race, That nearly wiped itself out leaving less than 15.000 descendants, I say that because that is what geneticists refer to as the human diversity bottle neck. All of this old unexplainable tech, is just the remains of our ancient human ancestors doing what humans do best, build to much stuff and wreck everything else in the process.
Consider this we went from horse and buggy to the moon in less than 150 years. The Romans had steam power but didn't know what to do with it, if they had attached some gears & pistons to their engine they would of had their industrial revolution 2000 years before we came along.
Ancient aliens no way www.manmadeufos.com/ I don't think so, more likely left over junk from the past, that some German scientists reverse engineered.
On December 13, 2011 at 03:47, RTI Installer said...
No, i do not. The commonly regurgitated theory of evolution is wrong, many scientists are starting to come around to this conclusion as well. I am in the Scientifically supported spontaneous adaptation camp. This "theory" states that life spontaneously adapts due to environmental stresses. such as changes in types of available food or habitat. Not over eons but within the span of just a few generations. in the case of insects a spontaneous adaptive mutation can take place in only one generation. We see this in bacteria and with viruses all the time. Even Darwin's finches proved him wrong when within one generation the finches completely changed their beak shape so as to adapt to a severe change in climate which altered their available food supply.
Yes 20 - 30 is a guess but its a pretty good guess since nobody really knows for sure. But it is know for sure that you simply don't go from an occipital bun brain arrangement as found with the skeletons that are claimed to be pre human all the way up to a pronounced coronal brain cavity in only a couple of mutated steps it just didn't happen I believe that 20 -30 is probably very Conservative.
Where are these 'many scientists' that are coming to this conclusion?
Which scientific body or who supports 'spontaneous adaptation?'
Where is evidence of this finch mutation that happened within one generation?
It is interesting that you state that finches evolved beak changes in one generation but you strongly imply brain structures just have to have at least 20 or 30 different 'steps.' But it is know for sure that you simply don't go from an occipital bun brain arrangement as found with the skeletons that are claimed to be pre human all the way up to a pronounced coronal brain cavity in only a couple of mutated steps...
Who 'knows for sure' that things just can't be this way?
Last edited by BigPapa on December 13, 2011 08:24.
If people are committed to an unscientific position, no evidence or argument will shake them out of it. Whether they subscribe to AIDS denial, excessive fear of radiation, vaccine scaremongering, homeopathy or creationism, they tend to demand impossible standards of proof from their opponents but accept any old rubbish that supports their beliefs.
If people are committed to an unscientific position, no evidence or argument will shake them out of it. Whether they subscribe to AIDS denial, excessive fear of radiation, vaccine scaremongering, homeopathy or creationism, they tend to demand impossible standards of proof from their opponents but accept any old rubbish that supports their beliefs.
For many century's geocentric reasoning was scientific fact and they had some pretty good evidence to back it up. We now of course know that this was all foolishness.
With the above example in mind, can you say without a doubt with no possibility of error that what is currently displayed as scientific fact, is it! There is nothing else. There is no greater knowledge that takes us from what we think we know into a greater understanding of all things and how they interact with each other.
Even the head of cern said that there are far more things they don't understand than is currently understood and that a great many things that many theory's are based upon don't really work, which is why they built the collider in the first place so that they could someday hopefully sort it all out.
The truth is, in the relm of scientific understanding we are just getting started.
Where are these 'many scientists' that are coming to this conclusion?
Which scientific body or who supports 'spontaneous adaptation?'
Excerpts
Mutation with Adaptation (Spontaneous Adaptation)
The question is, how does adaptation take place? In Darwin's theory, mutations are said to be random with respect to adaptation (adaptation is said to occur later through the process of selection, which I will discuss in the next section). However, there is evidence that mutations tend to be correlated with adaptation. Adaptation may then be a direct consequence of mutations, as the following examples illustrate.
Adaptive Immune System - In the adaptive immune system, lymphocyte cells (from the lymphatic system) are triggered by new infections and enter into a state of hyper-mutation and genetic recombination. After mitotic reproduction of the mutated cells, the genetic memory of the immune system is enhanced. This is a definitive example of environmental factors (in this case infectious agents) causing mutation along with adaptation.
Stress-Induced Mutations (or Self-Organization) - Highly stressed, near death populations of unicellular organisms may be subject to increased rates of mutation, e.g. by means of HGT [2,3]. In effect, genetic differences within a population are pooled, which may accelerate adaptation to the hostile environment. This is related to theories of self-organization, whereby cells that exist in far-from-equilibrium conditions may enter a dynamic, dissipative state of genetic and/or epigenetic hyper-mutation.
References for above
[1] M. Woolfit, I. Iturbe-Ormaetxe, E.A. McGraw & S.L. O'Neill, "An Ancient Horizontal Gene Transfer Between Mosquito and the Endosymbiotic Bacterium Wolbachia Pipientis", Molecular Biology and Evolution, Vol 26, No 2, 2009
[2] T.V. Karpinets, D.J. Greenwood, I.P. Pogribny & N.F. Samatova, "Bacterial Stationary-State Mutagenesis and Mammalian Tumorigenesis as Stress-Induced Cellular Adaptations and the Role of Epigenetics", Current Genomics, Vol 7, No 8, Nov 2006
[3] Y. Raz & E. Tannenbaum, "The Influence of Horizontal Gene Transfer on the Mean Fitness of Unicellular Populations in Static Environments", Genetics, Vol 185, May 2010
[4] C. Bekpen, T. Marques-Bonet, C. Alkan, F. Antonacci, M.B. Leogrande, M. Ventura, J.M. Kidd, P. Siswara, J.C. Howard & E.E. Eichler, "Death and Resurrection of the Human IRGM Gene", PLoS Genetics, Vol 5, No 3, 2009
[5] M. Sahibzada, "Biological Evolution in a Changing Environment - Towards an Engineering Hypothesis", Ezine Articles, 21 Sep 2009
Again..."Big Government" owns a monopoly on lethal force. "Big Business" only co-opts the benefits of this monopoly when Big Government actively colludes via regulation tainted by lobbyists.
I do not ignore the fact that "Big Business" does wrong [or more accurately, immoral and unethical members of businesses]. I merely advocate that "Big Business" can only do the sort of wrong that I should be concerned about when it does so in collusion with "Big Government," acting outside of its Consitutionally-permitted realm.
"Whatever is rightly done, however humble, is noble." [Sir Henry Royce]
On December 13, 2011 at 23:53, RTI Installer said...
Excerpts
Mutation with Adaptation (Spontaneous Adaptation)
The question is, how does adaptation take place? In Darwin's theory, mutations are said to be....
Interesting. You make a strong case for evolution and yet did not answer a key point you made, which is :
The commonly regurgitated theory of evolution is wrong, many scientists are starting to come around to this conclusion as well. I am in the Scientifically supported spontaneous adaptation camp.
Which scientists or scientific body are 'coming to the conclusion that evolution is wrong?' Because it seems all your supporting information supports evolution.
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