While it's important to review the technical aspects of product lines (features, return rates, complexity), and equally important question, if not more important, is to ask who you will go into a business relationship with for an extended period of time?

Every manufacturer has it's warts, dog products, and winners. Every one of them. If you can work out a good relationship with them directly (or with reps, and get your tech support/training in line), figure the product mix that fits your business, then ride that mix repeatedly until you have mastery, you'll make money and keep stress and frustration low.

If you're not charging for engineering/design but continually change products and keep your prices low you'll struggle.

So while it's good to ask the feature/reliability questions you're asking, think about these companies and ask yourself if you would invest in them, as if you are buying stock in their companies for your retirement account. Will their products work for your business, do you think their leadership will mostly make the right decisions, and do you feel bullish on them for the future?

Elite AV,

I think your combination of control brands (AMX and URC) is a good one and has you covered for all projects and all budgets. I do not think you will gain anything from switching to another brand since it seems every single one of them has its share of problems and there are specific devices in each brand which you have to avoid because they are problematic.

I fully agree with this and as always, the above mentioned logic by BigPapa.

^ this

Wesley? Are you there? You have our attention!

Thanks for the responses everyone. Sorry for the run on paragraph I didn't know there was a protocol to posting but I will break up this post as you all desire.

I understand the limitations of all the systems that we install. Each one has it's pros and cons. The thing in my eyes that is hurting URC is the bugginess of their 2 way modules and the fact that any sort of Ipad App won't be available until December/January and it will only work with their MRX10 Controller.

The Ipad is King at this moment in the eyes of the consumer. While I believe in no way shape or form should the Ipad be the clients only option for controlling their system due to its portability and numerous other uses it should however be able to control their system as an option.

With that said I recently have seen the RTI Ipad App and was quite impressed. I was at an integration event which showcased the RTI App and Lutron RA 2 and it looked phenomenal. The App also works with All three XP series processors by RTI so you have some options. It can control a simple flat panel with surround sound or that plus multi room audio and lighting and HVAC.

I guess I was looking for feedback from everyone as to what they prefer to use and whether or not it gives them fits when it comes time to hand over the keys to the system to the client.

I love the AMX products. I don't love the price point. In this day and age I feel we need to be able to offer our clients options that can handle their wishes and not break their budget at the same time. Overall from a reliability stand point the biggest system I've ever done was controlled via AMX. Although I paid a premium for the programming til this day the system works flawlessly (knock on wood) and about once a year I visit this client to see how everything is and he never seems to have any complaints. His only complaint is that it is going to cost $1500 to control the system via an Ipad. That house is AMX, Lutron Homeworks, Aprilaire Thermostats and numerous amounts of AV gear for surround sound rooms and multi room audio.

I was thinking of bringing in Control 4 as an entry level option but I guess I can get RTI to perform the same so why even bother.

With so many new manufacturers popping up and more gear becoming available what do you do. Do you become a jack of all trades and a master of none or do you choose a specific line up of gear and hope that they move forward with the same philosophies that you have.

Overall I just want to give my clients the best experience possible. I want the system to be user friendly and as bullet proof as possible. But then again that is what we are all looking to achieve.

Thank you all for your comments. I hope this is not too much info but it is good to get ideas and feedback from your peers. If anyone has any questions feel free to contact me and Thanks again!

My suggestion would be to attend a training and see if something clicks in. I can tell usually 20 minutes in if a system is going to appeal to me. It's not so much the capabilities its more or less the programming and products. Just sit through a training session and see how you like it. The good news is that you have some pretty versatile control systems at opposite ends of the price point scale.

Keep AMX and add RTI. The RTiPanel is sweet.

Also use Squeezebox for Pandora, Sirius radio, and local music shares. I am a recent convert and its great. 2 way with RTI is solid.

Wow you claim that C4 is a control company but RTI isn't? RTI is a control company. RTI is more configurable then C4. What makes you think they aren't? Sure URC is trying to become a control company but it's going to take a while for people to deem it a control company.

He has AMX for higher end control. RTI is great for budget and mid-level control. Honestly I have MANY very large matrices with audio and video distribution using RTI. Base model URC remotes look so dated and don't recharge. Both of these to me are huge negatives.

+1

+2, except RTI won't just lose lighting loads, audio zones ect when it just feels like it.

RTI is far from perfect, but they really do spend the time on the 2 way modules and programming software.

I know they are a VERY desired company to own and I know of at least two very large companies that wanted to purchase them but they declined.

Not getting off track, are you going to Cedia in a month?

Try and catch up with of a few of us that carry or have carried some of the products mentioned, and ask your reps in the booth "can I talk to another one of your dealers" I picked up Crestron because of conversation I had with another integrator, not because of a rep. Pay attention to the software, ask for demos where you are piloting and clicking so you know what your getting into. Its not all drag and drop these days...

People in the business that have dealt with a product really will tell it the way it is (when the rep isn't present) I will exchange cards with a dealer of a product I am interested in, and say mind if I buy dinner/a few drinks and pick your brain. Might cost me a 100$ but well worth it.

Most of us are free drink whores (look at the speakercraft booth everyday at floor closing time) and like to talk about toys

So what's the issue with it working with the MRX10? Price?

i agree with everybody else do your research First . there are drawbacks to every system. Look at what products your selling with the control system . like if you sell alot of tivo's c4's hard button remote might not be the best thing since there is not place for thumbs up or down buttons . but c4 is agreat solution for retro fits cuz they have a ton of wireless products.

Amx you need a very good programer

Savant is a great product too, because of the itunes libray build in but everything has to be on ups . And if you use the media box for on screen display the hdmi feeds thru it and if it crashes that tv does'nt work.

Urc major draw back if you sell a client 3 or 4 980 and he moves to a bigger house and whats to keep the remotes . To give him a better system who have to use msc 400's which dont have the abilltiy to load over the network so your walk all over the house updating msc-400.

Rti is my pick it gives me the least amount of head aches