Have a customer remodeling a small room and turning it into a cigar smoking/theater/music lovers room. We just completed an outdoor pavilian for him with surround sound that sounds and works great. The Room will have

55" LED Samsung TV
2 floor standing left and right channel phase tech speakers,
induction dynamic in wall center channel speaker.
2 in ceiling 8" phase tech speakers
Sony blu ray
URC psx-2 ipod dock.

Here is the question. We use Onkyo avr's but would like to bi amp speakers and curious what pre-amp and processor you would recommend. I want to create an option for watching movies and more importantly creating a music experience that is top notch.

Link to Front speakers
[Link: phasetech.com]

Link to center channel
[Link: inductiondynamics.com]

Link to rear channel speakers
[Link: phasetech.com]

why are you using different brands for the Mains and the Center? That will likely create tonal differences as images pan across the front sound stage.

You could get a higher end Onkyo and simply use the preouts and pair it with a nice Sherbourn, Bryston, Parasound amp. Since Onkyo is what you know.

A Basic rule of thumb is that the Processor+Amp is about the same price as your main L+R. This rule is a little sku'd in surround sound applications. In general, I've found that the AVR or pre/pro is typicall a 25-35% of the cost of a 5.1+avr/pre-pro.

If you have 10K, you can plan to spend roughly 7k on speakers+sub and 3k on amp and procssor. Those numbers are just a general rule of thumb that I use.

So what's your budget? There is a ton of good options, but without a budget, its hard suggest anything specifically.

Have to agree with the Sofa King.. Not only have you used different brands, you havent even come close tone wise. those speakers you've got there couldnt sound further apart... Titanium DOne Tweaters vs. Soft Dome, Kevlar bass Driver Vs. Phase Techs Composiet drivers...

WIth that as a base, you are going to have issues from the start.

I'd try to convince the client that acoustical treatments will make a big difference.

Any interest in treating the room like a real HT? Double drywall, vinyl or green glue, RSIC clips, absorbers behind the display/fronts, absorbers along first reflections (maybe ceiling too)? Does he want to keep sound contained, or limit external noise?

Even just treating the first reflections with some treated tasteful art prints could make a difference.

Bi-amping isn't what the manufacturers claim- at most, you'll have a 3dB increase AT RATED MAXIMUM OUTPUT. At any SPL, it means nothing unless the amplifier is being pushed beyond its capabilities.

Re: "why aren't you using the same brand?" questions, Phase Tech and Induction Dynamics are part of the same organization. I would call them to find about the differences in voicing, though.

agreed, there are better ways to get better sound performance for the dollars spent. You really have to look at your total budget. Some room treatments will go a lot further then a nicer amp (assuming you are using something decent as a base).

I would use the CI-110 for the center channel then upgrade the receiver.

What does that mean?

So are Klipsch and Jamo....

omean I'd put a Jamo Center channel in with Cornerhorns.

agree with all posts about same brand speakers, but i would definitely biamp if you are not using channels 6&7 for 7.1. why would you not? i absolutely believe in biamping. it may only gain 3db at the top end but at normal listening volumes it really makes a difference. sounds are a little more effortless and smoother. as far as receiver goes, i dont use anything less than avr-3311ci. with some box product for mains i would try for the 4311. as far as center goes, try your hardest for a box center, he will thank you later, or at least enclosed in wall center, makes a big difference.

Are we confusing bi-amping with bi-wiring? Bi-amping is typically used to bypass on board crossover networks and provide discrete amplification for your high and low frequency drivers. Unless you are talking about concert sound, its more about sound quality than SPL. Seems like a good choice if music is the priority. But to do it right, an outboard crossover is required.

The Phase Techs listed above seem to be configured for bi-wiring only. Bi-wiring is typically used to sell more speaker wire.

The CI-110 is a good pairing option but does not have the cosmetic option I needed. The induction dynamic piece is a cosmetic approach to the desingners wants. Much nicer looking speaker. I am just throwing out ideas.

The budget- I listed the items in the phase tech line to give you an idea of the budget we are working with. I am thinking around 12,000 for entire budget.

The induction Dynamics in wall speaker is 3800.00 retail
The phase tech floor standing speakers are 1700.00 retail
In in ceiling phase tech rear speakers are 578.00 each.
have not decided on subwoofer but am looking at the fl-12 from phase tech retails for about 800.00

Obviously would not sell at exact retail but you get the idea.

Sofa King- We have only used bi-amping for outdoor applications and for our pro-audio division, by-amping and pairing correctly is still pretty new to me as the owner. Our tech's understand this a lot better than me so I am doing my own research to even decide if it is neccesary. I am still not convinced that the customer wouldn't be just as happy with a high end avr powering all of this without bi-amping. I have installed an Onkyo tx-sr808 with these same floor standing speakers and it sounded incredible. Do You really think I need to bi amp it? I honesty just wanted to bi-amp just to see if there would be a noticeable difference. Not so much for the surround sound portion but the music portion.

Impaqt- so what were you suggestions?

My suggestion? Know that you are making a compromise for cosmetics. Make sure the client knows hes making compromises for cosmetics.


Phase makes the PC33.5 to match the Floor standers you are doing. If I wanted the best sound quality, and Phase Technology were the speakers I was going with, i'd be specing that center channel.

the CI110 or CI150 are significantly better acoustical options for the system.

I tried so hard for a box center with this client and the decorator. I am limited to a in wall center with a back box and the decorator is going to include some pretty good accoustic treatments. I just have never been satisfied with in wall center channels. And yes, it will be a 5.1 system only

you can biamp with a nice receiver without purchasing another amp. you stated you are doing 5.1, in the menu of receiver (not sure about onkyo) you can set what you want channels 6&7 to be. zone 2, main B, or biamp. will definitely help if you are not doing 7.1

why wouldnt you use ID all the way around.