I was in a similar situation 2 years ago. I priced a new Elan system for a customer. It was an 8 zone Elan system with an S12, power amps, OLE panels, a music server, a dual tuner, XM tuner, IPod dock and video switching. The project was a new build including structured wiring, security etc. The customer decided he could purchase the gear on Ebay cheaper and I made a poor decision and agreed to install this stuff at T&M and no warranty. When we installed, the dual tuner was defective and wouldn't power up, The XM radio's antenna input pin had been broken off during shipping and had to be sent to Elan for repair out of warranty. The RS232 on the music server was defective and was unable to receive 2 way feedback on the system. A couple of the OLE panels were defective and had to be replaced for new. In the end the customer paid 1.3 times what it would have been had he accepted the initial proposal.

I made money on the project BUT this is the lesson that I learned:

1. Customers like this will only chew up your time in service calls. Service calls are a necessary evil in our business and we get paid for them but these types of projects have the potential of taking your time away from better business.

2. People refer the same kind of customers. Their circle of friends are like minded. That's why they hang out with them. I got a few calls from this client's friends and all of them were not worth the time of day.

3. I was contributing to the demise of the CI industry. By allowing this project to happen, I essentially put the word out on the street that I was "Cheap". I was getting the same level of respect that the roofer was getting.

4. You can't and won't build a reputable and profitable business by allowing this type of job in your business model. It only attracts price driven clients.

After this experience, I stopped doing jobs where the customer purchased the equipment elsewhere ( TV's excluded).

My personal opinion is that we, as an industry, (me included) have been so sales driven that we have lost the essence of what we do. We are CUSTOM installers and we need to be compensated for the education and experience that we are able to deliver. We have allowed the " Bad Economy" and the fear that comes with that notion to reshape our industry. With all the discussion on this site surrounding price and how important it is to survive, I feel ,somehow, that we have become part of the problem. We have allowed the economy, our customers, and more importantly, ourselves, to dictate how  successful we will be.

Since stopping the owner supplied projects, I have to admit, sales did decline and it was a scary time. BUT it gave me time to focus on profitability and we recovered the numbers in time. We are doing much larger projects now and the respect level has increased 10 fold. I no longer have to hang a sign around my neck that says, " Please hire me! I'm desperate and cheap!"

I was in a similar situation 2 years ago. I priced a new Elan system for a customer. It was an 8 zone Elan system with an S12, power amps, OLE panels, a music server, a dual tuner, XM tuner, IPod dock and video switching. The project was a new build including structured wiring, security etc. The customer decided he could purchase the gear on Ebay cheaper and I made a poor decision and agreed to install this stuff at T&M and no warranty. When we installed, the dual tuner was defective and wouldn't power up, The XM radio's antenna input pin had been broken off during shipping and had to be sent to Elan for repair out of warranty. The RS232 on the music server was defective and was unable to receive 2 way feedback on the system. A couple of the OLE panels were defective and had to be replaced for new. In the end the customer paid 1.3 times what it would have been had he accepted the initial proposal.

I made money on the project BUT this is the lesson that I learned:

1. Customers like this will only chew up your time in service calls. Service calls are a necessary evil in our business and we get paid for them but these types of projects have the potential of taking your time away from better business.

2. People refer the same kind of customers. Their circle of friends are like minded. That's why they hang out with them. I got a few calls from this client's friends and all of them were not worth the time of day.

3. I was contributing to the demise of the CI industry. By allowing this project to happen, I essentially put the word out on the street that I was "Cheap". I was getting the same level of respect that the roofer was getting.

4. You can't and won't build a reputable and profitable business by allowing this type of job in your business model. It only attracts price driven clients.

After this experience, I stopped doing jobs where the customer purchased the equipment elsewhere ( TV's excluded).

My personal opinion is that we, as an industry, (me included) have been so sales driven that we have lost the essence of what we do. We are CUSTOM installers and we need to be compensated for the education and experience that we are able to deliver. We have allowed the " Bad Economy" and the fear that comes with that notion to reshape our industry. With all the discussion on this site surrounding price and how important it is to survive, I feel ,somehow, that we have become part of the problem. We have allowed the economy, our customers, and more importantly, ourselves, to dictate how  successful we will be.

Since stopping the owner supplied projects, I have to admit, sales did decline and it was a scary time. BUT it gave me time to focus on profitability and we recovered the numbers in time. We are doing much larger projects now and the respect level has increased 10 fold. I no longer have to hang a sign around my neck that says, " Please hire me! I'm desperate and cheap!"

+1 and here we go again. More trunk slammers chasing the money instead of protecting the industry.

If that guy also does a decent job and does right by the client, well the end user ends up with an overall decent experience. When it doesn't, they get there had slapped by their pocket book and then find someone to fix it and probably uses that new CI and recommends the new CI to everyone they know.

You're taking a job for less $ and increasing your downside risk. But hey, if you got to eat....

But what I think they fail to see is most of these customers nickel and dime you to death and you end up going hungry anyways.

You're taking a job for less $ and increasing your downside risk. But hey, if you got to eat....

It's not until they get burned or see that they have to pay double to get the stuff installed that they purchased on their own, that they'll consider changing their ways.