I quoted a Speakercraft MZC system to a potential client. I hadn't heard anything back for a while until today. He left me a voicemail saying he bought a MZC system on eBay complete with keypads. He then sent me an email with the link to the auction to ask if he got everything he needs. He bought a used system and paid a couple grand less then had he purchased through me. He did not get any Mode or Mode Free keypads, just MKP keypads with a few Numeric Keypads.

I have not called or emailed him back. I am not sure that I am going to either. Obviously a customer that would go any purchase a system like this on eBay is enough of a red flag to not go any further. The only way I can see going forward would be to resubmit a proposal with an hourly rate of 2.5 times the normal rate, minimum. I would also have to add a lot of time, about a day extra labor as originally we were going to go with a Mode Free keypad to eliminate having to run wires (his choice). Would you even call this guy back?

Double labor per hour fee. And then add additional hours for testing. And then in big print with signature. No warranty!

I'm with ED, don't know if I can pull of double labor, but definately no warranty, additional testing, and hopefully the freaking doesn't work properly and he has to buy one from you anyway.

I suppose I could make sure it doesn't work properly :-)

I don't like using equipment that I don't supply unless it can't affect the operation/functionality of the system, i.e., customer-owned speakers or power amp won't change the automation, although they can sound bad. I used a customer's RCA receiver and it was a nightmare and even though I told him at the outset that I couldn't guarantee the operation with the remote, he and his wife still blamed me. I don't know how they could justify that because not all of the buttons on their RCA remote worked. Otherwise, in a situation like this, I would have him sign away your responsibility in case it has problems. As mentioned, an usual warranty would be limited to your cabling & connections and their condition after you install it, plus any other equipment you supply. The stuff he got on ebay took away your profit and unless you want to deal with his cheapness on a regular basis, it may be best to decline the job. You already designed the system- did you plan to charge for this service? Maybe you can male up the lost profit by charging for the design- it was his choice to accept or decline the design and since he already declined it, he should still pay for it, IMO.

look, who cares where he bought it, mark the labor up to make up for your lost profit, let him know their is no warranty and install the system, make your $$ and move on...the internet has caused this with amazon being a horrible offender along with many other online resellers and it will not go away especially in this economy... so my .02 is change with the times and bill according or let your competitor do the job...not trying to be an a$$ but everyone complains and it is just not going to change anything, you have to change how you conduct your business to maintain profitability...it is possible, just a change in mindset and your contract/ owner furnished equipment form.

Walk away. Mr.Ebay will be blaming you when his ebay garbage doesn't work.

1) charge a bench fee to determine if the MZC and each individual keypad works.
2) if you charged for design charge a re-design fee for having to use the MKP & Numeric keypads (otherwise include that in your labor #)
3) obviously charge for the additional labor required to wire for those keypads you weren't going to run.

No equipment warranty! Signed contract

+ any accessory items he was going to need any way. ipod docks, line conditioning, cables, connectors, etc

Maybe your client is just trying to be green$$$$$
Recycling some used AV gear!!

Go for it! Just charge accordingly!

If you are so busy that this job would be effecting other jobs then don't do it. If you need the work then tell the customer it's going to be T&M. I think charging double rate or anything other than your current rate is bulls#$t. Make the customer sign a new contract stating you will not warranty anything and the work is to be done at T&M. There is no sense burning bridges by being a jerk because they purchased the equipment behind your back. Just know that if a customer is going to do this they will probably be a PIA.

Not all customers are created equal.

To make this work you have to charge him to test each piece and you have to charge him when product failure causes you to waste time troubleshooting and coming back to install the new part he finds in another auction to replace it. Do you really see this guy paying you T&M to install his ebay find?

And.. now you touched it so you will be blamed when it fails. Now what? You wasted all that time, he owes you money and you could have been playing golf instead.

If the guy said "i want to buy my own TV's" then fine. Let him. He already knew he wanted a TV so its not like you put in any work to steer him that direction. Plus we all know that margin on TV's is rare so why bother arguing about a few bucks.

But we are not talking about TV's here. We are talking about the products that you spec'd because you put in the work to know that they could be used. He took your labor, didn't pay for it and used it to shop online. He is beginning this relationship by showing you that he does not see any value in you. The only reason he called you is because your proposal doesn't show him how to connect it.

I hear the "if you need the money do it". There are strip clubs and "massage" parlors where you can also earn money.

Thats where CIs spend money not earn it

I have to agree with Stamp on this one. I just see this as a no win situation for you. If he had called you already having this system and wanted you to install it, different story. You charge T&M and offer zero warranty on any of the equipment.

He's got to know you're going to be pissed that he bought it all on his own after you gave him a shopping list and is going to blame you for anything that doesn't work. If you're thinking of possible referrals, you'll find most of the people he knows will be the same way, tell me what to buy so I can get it cheap and then you install it. Just see how he is the first time you have to go back and fix something and want to charge him.

Did you quote him labor on the original job? If so, do you really think he's going to accept double the labor quote? Not a chance. Send him a link to the AVS forum and let him find a DIY or trunk slammer on his own.

I'm dealing with this right now. Spent hours with them going over their needs and wants, put the package together and they call me 3 weeks later after finding eveything on FleaBay. I go and install anyway of course at the quoted labor rate. Explained all the bullshit about no warranty and service call charges. Something broke and I'm expected to run right up for no charge and fix it because it has to be my fault, couldn't be the used crap they bought.

Run away fast!

Mr. Installer: I'm sorry, it's not working
Mr. Customer: But it wasn't faulty before you touched it!

Tell them you will be glad to guarantee anything, would have been glad, that is, to guarantee anything that you sold them, but you will not stand behind anything that you did not supply.

This might get you around the simplest transfer of blame in the business: Whoever touches it last owns it.

First, I know nothing about this system, so if it's plug and play vs. something that has to be configured, programmed, special software/activation/registration, that will obviously change things in your favor.

If I were you I would ask myself a question -- can I walk away from this and still feed my family?
If yes, than walk away and take care of client that will treat you better. But if you going to sit home two days this week because there is no work, than you'll be crazy to not take the money that's sitting on this client's table.

Obviously you need to re-do your proposal or estimate.
Have him sign a contract before you even drive to the site stating no warranty and T&M paid daily.
Charge regular rate. I would think of anyone as crook if they tried to charge me 1.5x or 2.0x their regular rate for work done during regular business hours.
Charge for your bench testing, drive time, etc. If asked, explain to your client that drive time, warranty, after sale service, education, repairs, reconfiguration, etc. are things that are normally built into your equipment sales profit. No equipment sale means no profit. So you're just an hourly laborer at this point.

If you worry about referrals, I would think one of three outcomes is possible:
1. If you decline a job, you lost money. You're not going to get any referrals from him anyways, as the guy is most likely going to badmouth you.
2. If you do the job and things work out fine, then:
A. you got paid
B. you'll likely to get referrals.
3. If you do the job and things don't work out then:
A. you got paid
b. you may have been able to bill for extra troubleshooting time and replacement equipment, proving that the equipment he provided had was faulty, not your ability to install it.
C. worst case scenario, the guy still badmouths you, but now you at least have few bucks in your pocket.

I don't know, maybe I'm naive to think that this is business, and personal feelings have no place here, outside of obvious dignity, honor, etc.
I'm a small business in a bad economy, and so I take what I can get, provided I get paid for my time at my rate.

Mario